Freethought & Rationalism Archive

eh · 05-02-2003, 04:28 PM

Apparently, some academics in Scotland have found "proof" of mediums' ability to use extrasensory perception

http://www.sundayherald.com/33398

chris dlugosz · 05-03-2003, 04:51 PM

um.. look we did studies. and we used math!... and esp is crazy.

------- that article said NOTHING. it was a long reiteration of the headline.

Ockhamite · 05-03-2003, 05:35 PM

LOL funny
......experiments which seek to establish how spiritual mediums obtain information supposedly transmitted from beyond the grave.

"It is just like radio waves."said Gordon Smith,a medium "If you were very emotional you'd give off a lot of feeling and I would be able to pick up the fact that you were going through a crisis time."

Archie believes that memory and self-consciousness persist after death. He focuses on four specific aspects of parapsychology; possession, apparitions, reincarnation and mediumship. Taken collectively, these phenomena, he argues, present a powerful affront to the assertion that the mind is simply the brain in action. For if this were the case, how would we explain spectral apparitions of the deceased that appear in bodily form and convey messages to the living?

WARNING...bereavement counseling by explotitative mediums can be dangerous if they keep open the link with the dead. Unscrupulous spirtualists can be prosecuted under the Fraudulent Mediums Act

RBH · 05-03-2003, 06:53 PM

Archie Roy is an Emeritus Professor of Astronomy. Just the guy to do research on human sensory capabilities. Physicists tend to be the most credulous about mediums' claims. They really believe that their knowledge of physics somehow makes them qualified to detect deception in experiments with humans. He does get around, though. Here's his bio from a book blurb:

Quote:

Professor Emeritus of Astronomy in the University of Glasgow, Archie E. Roy is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, The Royal Astronomical Society and the British Interplanetary Society. He is also a member of the Society for Psychical Research and the Scottish Society for Psychical Research being a past-President of both and the Founding-President of the latter. A member of the International Astronomical Union, it recently honoured him by naming an asteroid after him. He has also been elected a member of the European Academy of Arts, Sciences and the Humanities. He is a Patron of the Churches Fellowship (Scotland) for Psychical and Spiritual Studies and a member of the Scientific and Medical Network.

He conducts research in astrodynamics, celestial mechanics, archaeoastronomy, psychical research and neural networks. He has published 20 books, six of them novels, some 70 scientific papers and scores of articles. Several of his books have been published in the United States, France, Russia, Italy and India. In a varied career he has traveled widely and lectured in many countries, directed Advanced Scientific Institutes for NATO, edited journals and newspapers, and investigated haunted houses and haunted people.

An interesting guy, no doubt. BTW, at least one of the novels referred to is a scif-fi book, I understand. One of his papers in astronomy, published in 1954, is a minor classic, showing that the planetary system is, to a fair approximation, in a nearly resonant configuration.

RBH

Wounded King · 05-04-2003, 01:21 AM

Do you think he believes in astrology?

Misso · 05-04-2003, 12:43 PM

Makes you wonder what the dozens or possibly hundreds of other studies in this area did wrong to get no significant results.

All that's said is that the tests were double blind and in seperate rooms with the use of a microphone (which leaves open the option that the medium can hear something in the voice of the subject). In the first few lines it's said that "information supposedly transmitted from beyond the grave" is the topic of experiment, but there's no mention of how it was measured. How can you measure something that most likely doesn't even exist?
The whole experiment is based on the assumption that communication is indeed possible. If one is working with something that doesn't exist, any result is possible because they can be interpreted at will. Like with god: lose a leg and god's either angry with you or he's benevolent and saved you from losing both legs.

I'd like to see the whole report of this experiment.

05-05-2003, 09:54 PM

Qoute :

"It is just like radio waves."said Gordon Smith,a medium "If you were very emotional you'd give off a lot of feeling and I would be able to pick up the fact that you were going through a crisis time."

Hmmm .... Close enough ...

The Lone Ranger · 05-06-2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

The results so far have been assessed with hard maths and statistics. We believe that we have disproved the idea that all mediums are able to do is make general statements.

Hmm.

It's interesting, to say the least, that hundreds of attempts to demonstrate such phenomena have failed. Hundreds of attempts, and one "success."

In a typical experiment, the experimenter decides upon an "alpha" level -- this is the probability that the results in question are due to something other than chance -- beforehand. A very common alpha level in scientific experimentation is 0.05.

In practice, if your calculations show a probability greater than 0.05, you conclude that the results of your experiment are probably due to chance alone (in other words, there's no evidence that the effect or phenomenon that you're looking for is present). Only if the calculated probability is less than the "alpha" value do you conclude that there's evidence of something going on.

Now, think about what this means for a moment. If you do a whole bunch of experiments, each with an "alpha" value of 0.05, then you'll expect to get a "significant" result (alpha < 0.05) approximately one time in 20, just by chance. This is true even if the phenomenon you're looking for doesn't exist.

That's why no one in science takes such claims seriously until they're replicated.

Considering how many tests for the existence of "psychic" phenomena have been conducted, the real surprise isn't that someone has finally found "evidence" for their existence, but that it happens so rarely.

Cheers,

Michael

Wounded King · 05-06-2003, 02:58 AM

Surely this in itself is clear proof that the dampening effect which psychics claim rational analysis of their gifts produces is a real phenomenon. Are the negative results significantly below the levels you would expect by chance, if so it is clear proof of the existence of psychic phenomena.

05-02-2003, 04:28 PM	#1
eh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 624	Research proves the existence of a 'sixth sense' Apparently, some academics in Scotland have found "proof" of mediums' ability to use extrasensory perception http://www.sundayherald.com/33398

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05-03-2003, 04:51 PM	#2
chris dlugosz New Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Yes. Posts: 1	um.. look we did studies. and we used math!... and esp is crazy. ------- that article said NOTHING. it was a long reiteration of the headline.

05-03-2003, 05:35 PM	#3
Ockhamite Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Appalachia....just past the Wal-Mart Posts: 121	LOL funny ......experiments which seek to establish how spiritual mediums obtain information supposedly transmitted from beyond the grave. "It is just like radio waves."said Gordon Smith,a medium "If you were very emotional you'd give off a lot of feeling and I would be able to pick up the fact that you were going through a crisis time." Archie believes that memory and self-consciousness persist after death. He focuses on four specific aspects of parapsychology; possession, apparitions, reincarnation and mediumship. Taken collectively, these phenomena, he argues, present a powerful affront to the assertion that the mind is simply the brain in action. For if this were the case, how would we explain spectral apparitions of the deceased that appear in bodily form and convey messages to the living? WARNING...bereavement counseling by explotitative mediums can be dangerous if they keep open the link with the dead. Unscrupulous spirtualists can be prosecuted under the Fraudulent Mediums Act

05-04-2003, 01:21 AM	#5
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	Do you think he believes in astrology?

05-04-2003, 12:43 PM	#6
Misso Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 570	Makes you wonder what the dozens or possibly hundreds of other studies in this area did wrong to get no significant results. All that's said is that the tests were double blind and in seperate rooms with the use of a microphone (which leaves open the option that the medium can hear something in the voice of the subject). In the first few lines it's said that "information supposedly transmitted from beyond the grave" is the topic of experiment, but there's no mention of how it was measured. How can you measure something that most likely doesn't even exist? The whole experiment is based on the assumption that communication is indeed possible. If one is working with something that doesn't exist, any result is possible because they can be interpreted at will. Like with god: lose a leg and god's either angry with you or he's benevolent and saved you from losing both legs. I'd like to see the whole report of this experiment.

05-05-2003, 09:54 PM	#7
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Qoute : "It is just like radio waves."said Gordon Smith,a medium "If you were very emotional you'd give off a lot of feeling and I would be able to pick up the fact that you were going through a crisis time." Hmmm .... Close enough ...

05-06-2003, 02:58 AM	#9
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	Surely this in itself is clear proof that the dampening effect which psychics claim rational analysis of their gifts produces is a real phenomenon. Are the negative results significantly below the levels you would expect by chance, if so it is clear proof of the existence of psychic phenomena.

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