beastmaster

If god created dinosaur bones to test our faith, who's to say god didn't create the bible to test our *skepticism*?

maybe god prefers the skeptic to the gullible fool, and wants a reliable test.

So he writes a book filled with obvious implausibilities, contradictions, and ahistoricities and see who laps it up.

Maybe god prefers the morally courageous to the servile sycophant.

So he concocts a "revelation" that appeals to one's naked self-interest by promising an eternal afterlife of pure bliss -- the only catch is you have to leave common sense and reason at the door and profess belief in this book of concocted lies.

Those with the moral courage to reject the bankruptcy of the supposed revelation are the truly selfless, for they are willing to forgo heaven for their principles.

Maybe the skeptics go to heaven and the gullible theists go to hell.

stupid, huh?

but how much more stupid than Xnty?

Really, I don't get it.

Jamie_L

If God exists and God is omnipotent and God created everything, I can only conclude one thing:

God wants me to be an atheist.

*shrug*

Jamie

Bree

Not to put words in Christians' mouths, but I think most believers draw a line between "testing the faith" and "outright lying" - God frequently indulges in the former and Satan in the latter.

Melkor

Lol.

That belongs on a bumper sticker. I want it!!!!!

MrDarwin

Which, of course, raises the question of how Christians know that God would never lie to them: because he tells them so??? Reminds me of the paradox of the liar: "I never lie. In fact, I'm not lying right now." Oh wait, that's not a paradox...

Which leads into another question: how do we know God is not omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent... and malevolent? That's a stumper.

beastmaster

Not to put words in Christians' mouths, but doesn't Satan work for God?

Jayjay

Maybe Satan was tempting the jews the same way he tempted Job... when God boasts how righteous and obedient his chosen people are, Satan says that they wouldn't be if there was a challenge, something like a guy doing miracles, posing as "son of God", and abolishing the OT law under the guise of "new covenant". So God tells Satan to do all this, and look: God's people stand firm in their faith! Only a couple of gentiles pick up the heresy, but who cares about them anyway?

(Not my idea... plagiarizing something I read either here at II or alt.atheism.)

Ensign Steve

What a great idea. It reminds me of "The Emporer's New Clothes." What was the moral of that fable?

Oh, yeah! The dishonest people went along with whatever they were told, no matter how nonsensical it seemed, out of fear, or out of the desire to have the majority opinion.

The honest and pure child stuck with the evidence he saw, thought for himself, and spoke up his disbelief in the lies, without regard to the consequences.

So if God wants only honest people in heaven, I bet you're absolutely right!



Jen

Jamie_L

Found this while perusing the II Library this morning. In it, Richard Carrier makes exactly the case in this thread, only, as always, communicated in an exemplary fashion.

Jamie

Captain Pedantic

When I was at school, I had a self-proclaimed agnostic tell me that only agnostics go to heaven, since the people who decide on one religion or another, or none at all, are closing their minds to the possibility that they have chosen the wrong option. Therefore, agnostics, who choose no belief option over another, are more likely to get into heaven.

Since this is not my argument, feel free to point out the gaping holes

His argument was further diminished by the fact that he refused to admit that this meant his Christian friend wasn't going to heaven either.

I had to sit next to him, his Christian friend and a lad who wrote poems in Cornish when I did Media Studies at school. Is it any wonder I was so angry with my life?