Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jewel · 07-30-2003, 05:06 AM

From USA Today

Quote:

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) � Alabama's new governor is trying to persuade voters to approve the biggest tax increase in state history by telling them it is their Christian duty. And for a state in the Bible Belt, that might seem like a winning strategy.

Instead, Republican Gov. Bob Riley's $1.2 billion tax package is alienating even the Christian Coalition and other supporters, who see Riley as a Judas. Riley had consistently opposed new taxes while in Congress.

Riley says the tax increase is needed to erase Alabama's biggest deficit since the Depression and improve education. The plan also seeks to help the poor by raising the income level at which people have to begin paying state taxes.

Alabama's threshold for paying state taxes is the lowest in the nation at just $4,600 for a family of four and has been remain unchanged since 1982.

Riley, a Southern Baptist, says Alabama has taxed its poorest too harshly for too long.

"According to our Christian ethics, we're supposed to love God, love each other and help take care of the poor," he said. "It is immoral to charge somebody making $5,000 an income tax."

Should a governor really be telling people what their Christian duty is -- while on on the job? I don't think so. While the tax hike may be a nessessary thing, he souldn't be couching it in religious terms.

hezekiah jones · 07-30-2003, 05:27 AM

Cool. Let the Christians pay the tax hike. They're supposed to give everything they own to the poor anyway.

Ennazus · 07-30-2003, 06:05 AM

I'm wondering .. if it is one's "Christian duty" to pay more taxes, shouldn't non-Christians be exempt?

Jewel · 07-30-2003, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Suzanne**Atheist
I'm wondering .. if it is one's "Christian duty" to pay more taxes, shouldn't non-Christians be exempt?

Hey, you might just have something there! Why didn't I see it before? Finally, a tax plan I can agree with!

joedad · 07-30-2003, 11:04 AM

Whatever happened to "civic" imperatives? Everything the governor says makes sense if one substitutes the word "civic" for the word "christian," or has the governor forgotten 9th grade civics?

I lived in Pelham for a couple years while working in Bessemer. I observed a very close relationship between school districts and local businesses, maybe because the schools were so strapped for cash. But I thought the quality of education, at least in the primary grades, was excellent. Having been associated with Ysleta School District in El Paso Texas for a couple years as well, the Alabama experience was of much higher quality, but those experiences are quite old.

William Jennings Bryan and Cross of Gold speeches come to mind, though maybe a cross of Liberalism is more appropriate in this case, from the perspective of the audience anyway. In any case, right now we're being nailed to a cross of Greed.

Somehow, over the past generation, those persons with the most wealth have been successful at convincing those with the least wealth that they should identify with their wealthier counterparts. And that's all well and good so long as the math works out. But when the poor get poorer and the wealthy get wealthier because people like getting a rebate in the mail, even though their wages and opportunities are stagnant, I have to conclude that the average ideological joe is just too dumb to recognize his situation. It's a pretty slick con in a way, as he votes in the next round of tax cuts, collects his rebate check, and hurries off to take advantage of W.I.C. programs, while waving his American flag made in China.

Anyway, as all the fiscal pain becomes more localized and acute, something has to give I would think.

Babylon Sister · 07-30-2003, 12:50 PM

Anyone think this plan could cause people to de-convert?

scumble · 07-31-2003, 06:46 AM

It actually demonstrates that religious rhetoric often has no effect to move people politically.

RufusAtticus · 07-31-2003, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jewel
Should a governor really be telling people what their Christian duty is -- while on on the job? I don't think so. While the tax hike may be a nessessary thing, he souldn't be couching it in religious terms.

The issue is that Alabama needs this tax reform very badly. Alabama politics is so screwed up that nothing floats with the voters unless it is a "Christian" thing to do. If this is what it takes to convince the people of Alabama that the poor (aka themselves) shouldn't have to bear the burden of taxes, I don't have much a problem with it.

Jewel · 07-31-2003, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus
The issue is that Alabama needs this tax reform very badly. Alabama politics is so screwed up that nothing floats with the voters unless it is a "Christian" thing to do. If this is what it takes to convince the people of Alabama that the poor (aka themselves) shouldn't have to bear the burden of taxes, I don't have much a problem with it.

Well appearantly that tactic didn't work in this case. I certainly don't have a problem with much needed tax reform and I especially don't have a problem with poor people being exempt. It just always seems odd to me when a politition feels the need to resort to dictating religion to people in order to get anything done.

RufusAtticus · 07-31-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jewel
It just always seems odd to me when a politition feels the need to resort to dictating religion to people in order to get anything done.

Well that is how Alabama politics is working at this point in time. I'd be more concerned if the law was actually drafted on Christian principles, but as far as I can tell it is just plain ole' modern tax reform. But don't worry, you have the Christian Coalition and the Republican Party of Alabama being backed by the timber and agriculture industries and arguing that requiring the poor to pay the blunt of taxes is the Christian thing to do. So the entire situation is completely fucked up.

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07-30-2003, 05:27 AM	#2
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Cool. Let the Christians pay the tax hike. They're supposed to give everything they own to the poor anyway.

07-30-2003, 06:05 AM	#3
Ennazus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Chicago 'burbs Posts: 1,242	I'm wondering .. if it is one's "Christian duty" to pay more taxes, shouldn't non-Christians be exempt?

07-30-2003, 11:04 AM	#5
joedad Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: PA USA Posts: 5,039	Whatever happened to "civic" imperatives? Everything the governor says makes sense if one substitutes the word "civic" for the word "christian," or has the governor forgotten 9th grade civics? I lived in Pelham for a couple years while working in Bessemer. I observed a very close relationship between school districts and local businesses, maybe because the schools were so strapped for cash. But I thought the quality of education, at least in the primary grades, was excellent. Having been associated with Ysleta School District in El Paso Texas for a couple years as well, the Alabama experience was of much higher quality, but those experiences are quite old. William Jennings Bryan and Cross of Gold speeches come to mind, though maybe a cross of Liberalism is more appropriate in this case, from the perspective of the audience anyway. In any case, right now we're being nailed to a cross of Greed. Somehow, over the past generation, those persons with the most wealth have been successful at convincing those with the least wealth that they should identify with their wealthier counterparts. And that's all well and good so long as the math works out. But when the poor get poorer and the wealthy get wealthier because people like getting a rebate in the mail, even though their wages and opportunities are stagnant, I have to conclude that the average ideological joe is just too dumb to recognize his situation. It's a pretty slick con in a way, as he votes in the next round of tax cuts, collects his rebate check, and hurries off to take advantage of W.I.C. programs, while waving his American flag made in China. Anyway, as all the fiscal pain becomes more localized and acute, something has to give I would think.

07-30-2003, 12:50 PM	#6
Babylon Sister Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wyoming Posts: 894	Anyone think this plan could cause people to de-convert?

07-31-2003, 06:46 AM	#7
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	It actually demonstrates that religious rhetoric often has no effect to move people politically.

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