Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 07-23-2002, 05:17 AM

Did anybody see her last night? She was on for only 10 minutes or so at the end of the show.

She actually brought up separation issues as one of her main concerns with the GWB administration. Donohue said, "Not many people are talking about that." She said that we should be and mentioned W's office of religion or whatever it is called.

Then D. took off into more general civil rights issues. She said that most of the press has not questioned policies such as detention without legal representation because they are afraid of being labeled unpatriotic.

She also said that the press's unquestioning allegiance to the government is even worse than it was in WWII.

If we only had more Helen Thomases and if she were only younger and could stay with us longer!

MadMordigan · 07-23-2002, 05:41 AM

Helen Thomas? I thought he was going to have HEATHER Thomas on his show.

What a gyp.

capsaicin67 · 07-23-2002, 07:53 AM

.
"Helen Thomas? I thought he was going to have HEATHER Thomas on his show."

I want a Helen Thomas poster for my bedroom now! She rocks AND rules! I was so freaking relieved to finally see a responsible journalist speak from a position of strength and describe how grave the situation has become. I was very impressed with her far too brief observations.
Donahue's show seems to be coming along a bit, though, I still have fantasies about how much more it could be. However, it's a truth famine, I'm starving, and I'll take it! But I would like to see him not rush and squeeze his topics so much. It's very, very difficult for them to really get into the substance of an issue very deeply. I would, for instance, like to see him load some panels with people speaking the oppressed truth [for example, regarding the facts and history that validate the Pledge Ruling], minus the opposing disninformants. I think debate can be good, but in sucha an oppressive media environment, and one where Rush and O'Reilly et al filibuster and bully daily in addition to allowing some token opposition, I think it would be totally appropriate to just get some alternate points of view clearly communicated, and not let the Buchanans use up precious time----in addition to the opportunities to do more of the same in their own venues---- using verbal bullying etc, to spin the truth right out of the topics/issues.

GaryP · 07-23-2002, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by capsaicin67:
Donahue's show seems to be coming along a bit, though, I still have fantasies about how much more it could be. However, it's a truth famine, I'm starving, and I'll take it! But I would like to see him not rush and squeeze his topics so much. It's very, very difficult for them to really get into the substance of an issue very deeply.[/QB]

I agree. But many of the shows nowadays lack depth and substance.

Helen T. asked Bush at a press conf. early in his administration why he did not respect separation.

He said he did. She replied," if you do, you wouldn' have a faith-based office in the White House." he never responded to that.

MadM-- Sorry to get your "hopes" up about Heather T.!

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: GaryP ]</p>

capsaicin67 · 07-25-2002, 02:13 AM

Helen Thomas quotes:

"I remember with tremendous sadness the statement of Martin Niemoller, a Lutheran minister in Berlin, after World War II as a warning of what can happen when people do not come to the defense of others whose civil liberties have been taken away.
Niemoller said, "In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me -- and by that time, no one was left to speak up."
Niemoller had founded the Pastors Emergency League to Resist Hitlerism and had been confined to Nazi concentration camps for eight years before his release in 1945."

"What we need now are more leaders who are students of civics, democracy and especially the Constitution. For to become great Americans, we must know why the founders of our country were so outstanding."

seanie · 07-25-2002, 04:00 AM

The Niemoller quote is interesting. Look on the internet and you'll find numerous different versions. I don't know for certain which is the original but when I first heard the quote it was:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist -- so I said nothing. Then they came for the Socialists, but I was not a Socialist -- so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew -- so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left who could stand up for me."

I'm not sure that's the correct quote but I am pretty sure there was no mention of Catholics or Protestants originally, which would make sense since the Nazis were far too busy slaughtering lefties, Jews, homosexuals and gypsies to start rounding up Catholics and Protestants en masse.

I understand that Al Gore once used the quote but left out the Communists and Socialists altogether, presumably because he didn't think the slaughter of those particular groups was such a bad idea. Maybe I'm being unfair.

Anyway I just thought I'd point out that the quote has a remarkable capacity for variation and that it also demonstrates how difficult it is to trust what you read on the internet.

07-23-2002, 05:17 AM	#1
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	H. Thomas on Donohue Did anybody see her last night? She was on for only 10 minutes or so at the end of the show. She actually brought up separation issues as one of her main concerns with the GWB administration. Donohue said, "Not many people are talking about that." She said that we should be and mentioned W's office of religion or whatever it is called. Then D. took off into more general civil rights issues. She said that most of the press has not questioned policies such as detention without legal representation because they are afraid of being labeled unpatriotic. She also said that the press's unquestioning allegiance to the government is even worse than it was in WWII. If we only had more Helen Thomases and if she were only younger and could stay with us longer!

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07-23-2002, 05:41 AM	#2
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	*Helen* Thomas? I thought he was going to have HEATHER Thomas on his show. What a gyp.

07-23-2002, 07:53 AM	#3
capsaicin67 Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gold coast plain, sea, scrubland, mountain range. Posts: 20,955	. "Helen Thomas? I thought he was going to have HEATHER Thomas on his show." I want a Helen Thomas poster for my bedroom now! She rocks AND rules! I was so freaking relieved to finally see a responsible journalist speak from a position of strength and describe how grave the situation has become. I was very impressed with her far too brief observations. Donahue's show seems to be coming along a bit, though, I still have fantasies about how much more it could be. However, it's a truth famine, I'm starving, and I'll take it! But I would like to see him not rush and squeeze his topics so much. It's very, very difficult for them to really get into the substance of an issue very deeply. I would, for instance, like to see him load some panels with people speaking the oppressed truth [for example, regarding the facts and history that validate the Pledge Ruling], minus the opposing disninformants. I think debate can be good, but in sucha an oppressive media environment, and one where Rush and O'Reilly et al filibuster and bully daily in addition to allowing some token opposition, I think it would be totally appropriate to just get some alternate points of view clearly communicated, and not let the Buchanans use up precious time----in addition to the opportunities to do more of the same in their own venues---- using verbal bullying etc, to spin the truth right out of the topics/issues.

07-25-2002, 02:13 AM	#5
capsaicin67 Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gold coast plain, sea, scrubland, mountain range. Posts: 20,955	Helen Thomas quotes: "I remember with tremendous sadness the statement of Martin Niemoller, a Lutheran minister in Berlin, after World War II as a warning of what can happen when people do not come to the defense of others whose civil liberties have been taken away. Niemoller said, "In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me -- and by that time, no one was left to speak up." Niemoller had founded the Pastors Emergency League to Resist Hitlerism and had been confined to Nazi concentration camps for eight years before his release in 1945." "What we need now are more leaders who are students of civics, democracy and especially the Constitution. For to become great Americans, we must know why the founders of our country were so outstanding."

07-25-2002, 04:00 AM	#6
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	The Niemoller quote is interesting. Look on the internet and you'll find numerous different versions. I don't know for certain which is the original but when I first heard the quote it was: "First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist -- so I said nothing. Then they came for the Socialists, but I was not a Socialist -- so I did nothing. Then came the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew -- so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left who could stand up for me." I'm not sure that's the correct quote but I am pretty sure there was no mention of Catholics or Protestants originally, which would make sense since the Nazis were far too busy slaughtering lefties, Jews, homosexuals and gypsies to start rounding up Catholics and Protestants en masse. I understand that Al Gore once used the quote but left out the Communists and Socialists altogether, presumably because he didn't think the slaughter of those particular groups was such a bad idea. Maybe I'm being unfair. Anyway I just thought I'd point out that the quote has a remarkable capacity for variation and that it also demonstrates how difficult it is to trust what you read on the internet.

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