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Old 04-09-2003, 07:55 AM   #1
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Default PhysicsWeb: Are the laws of nature changing with time?

There is an interesting new article on Physicsweb about the use of geological and astrophysical data to reconstruct changes in physical "constants" during the history of the universe. Its an interesting article, especially the explanation of quasar absorption spectra as a tool for "paleophysics."

Are the laws of nature changing with time?

In particular, the article discusses evidence for changes in the fine-structure constant:

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The fine-structure constant, ¦Á, is a measure of the strength of the electromagnetic interaction, and it quantifies the strength with which electrons bind within atoms and molecules. It is defined as ¦Á ¡Ô e2/h bar c ¡Ö 1/137, where e is the charge on the electron, h is Planck's constant divided by 2¦Ð, and c is the speed of light in a vacuum. The fine-structure constant is of particular interest because it is a dimensionless number. This makes it even more fundamental than other constants such as the strength of gravity, the speed of light or the charge on the electron (see Constants with and without dimensions).
First, geologic data are examined. Both the Oklo reactor phenomenon and the results of rhenium dating allow only very small changes in ¦Á over the past 4.5 billion years:

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Very recently a new geological measurement technique known as "rhenium dating" has produced potentially even more stringent results. The ages of iron meteorites obtained using rhenium dating are consistent with those found by other methods. From this we can show that the beta-decay lifetime of rhenium cannot have changed by more than 0.5% over the age of the solar system. This translates to an upper limit on any fractional change in the value of ¦Á of the order 10^-7 over about 4.6 billion years.
Next, astrophysical data are discussed, particularly the use of quasar absorption spectra. It is argued on the basis of these spectra that ¦Á may have changed by a very small amount over time:

Quote:
Since the project started in 1998 we have measured 75 quasars at distances out to 13 billion light-years with the 10 metre Keck 1 telescope on Hawaii. The results from the Keck 1 data are astonishing. There is statistically significant evidence that ¦Á may have been very slightly smaller in the past, but only by about 1 part in 10^5

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Old 04-11-2003, 01:44 PM   #2
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Perhaps the group has a more recent paper out, but I checked out the paper entitled "Search for Time Variation of the Fine Structure Constant" (Physical Review Letters 82:884, 1999) by John K. Webb (University of New South Wales), et al.

Their data is essentially consistent with zero change of the fine structure constant out to redshift of 1.6. They even state:

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Our results should thus be regarded as stringent upper limits on any possible time variation rather than a positive detection of a change.
Their upper limit is in the range of delta alpha/alpha = 1--2 x 10^-5.
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Old 04-11-2003, 03:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: PhysicsWeb: Are the laws of nature changing with time?

Quote:
Originally posted by ps418
There is an interesting new article on Physicsweb about the use of geological and astrophysical data to reconstruct changes in physical "constants" during the history of the universe. Its an interesting article, especially the explanation of quasar absorption spectra as a tool for "paleophysics."
I *knew* it!

The speed of light really has slowed down since Creation!
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Old 04-14-2003, 08:51 AM   #4
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Default alpha constant

A more thorough investigation of the spectra from different areas has led some scientists to believe the speed of light is not consant throught time especially in the more distant areas of the universe.The alpha constant 1/137 dictates what can live as we know it.
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
I *knew* it!
The speed of light really has slowed down since Creation!
I was gonna say, it's a good damn thing that Creationists don't actually give enough of a shit about science to follow it, or they'd start using this one against us.
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Old 04-14-2003, 09:55 AM   #6
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Default alpha

Some of webb and associates work does appear in Nature,2002
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Old 04-14-2003, 10:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowy Man
Perhaps the group has a more recent paper out, but I checked out the paper entitled "Search for Time Variation of the Fine Structure Constant" (Physical Review Letters 82:884, 1999) by John K. Webb (University of New South Wales), et al.
There are both new papers and new quasar data. The impression I get from the PhysicsWeb article is that while the data for change is stronger than it was 1999, it is still somewhat inconclusive. At any rate, any change of of the FSC, if it exists at all, is constrained by observational data to be very small indeed. To me this is interesting in that it refutes empirically the notion that 'constants' have changed in some dramatic way over recent time.

Here are the papers cited by the PhysicsWeb article. The last one is written by the same group that wrote the PRL paper you cite above.

Does the fine-structure constant vary with cosmological epoch?

Fine-structure constant variability: surprises for laboratory atomic spectroscopy and cosmological evolution of quasar spectra

WMAP Constraints on varying $\alpha$ and the Promise of Reionization

A Search for Variations of Fundamental Constants using Atomic Fountain Clocks

Does the fine structure constant vary? A detailed investigation into systematic effects

Constraints on the Variations of the Fundamental Couplings

The fundamental constants and their variation: observational status and theoretical motivations

Does the fine structure constant vary? A third quasar absorption sample consistent with varying alpha
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:56 AM   #8
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Default fine line shift

The earlier work by Webb and others was not a definite statement on the variation of the speed of light and was always open to further investigation. From the information given seems still to be fully investigated.
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