Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jimmy Higgins · 07-14-2002, 07:22 PM

You've been arguing online or in person, with someone on religion. You've been going back and forth and then finally you've got them in a corner. Perhaps it was a contradiction or a lie or a false premise. In any case, you've got them licked. You are licking your chops ready to finish them off, but then something happens. Its as if the Christian has turned back the clock, nothing has ever been said, and they are right. Its a defense mechanism they have, and its worked for them for this long. They post and then disappear. What defense mechanism have you noticed used the most?

"Why are you posting here?"

Secular Pinoy · 07-14-2002, 08:37 PM

You have your opinion and I have mine

That still does not change the fact that god exists

I'm so sorry for your damned soul

YOU MUST BELIEVE!!!

#!@$%

I have better things to do

Be that as it may, god still wants you to believe in him

But you must believe!

Forget about reason, just BELIEVE!

Whatever

You just don't want to see the evidence

You have closed your heart to him

I will be praying for you

I'm so sorry you believe that

Then what's stopping you from killing and eating babies?

You're not welcome in this forum anymore.

You're just biased!

The fool saith in his heart there is no god Psalms 14:1

I hate to be in your shoes

Keep an open mind!

Jesus still loves you

Note: This list does not imply that the original post does not contain misspellings. (Sorry for the double negative!)

philechat · 07-14-2002, 08:53 PM

"I approach Him by FAITH! Do you understand what FAITH is?"

"It's my personal experience. I have experienced HIM!"

"You are not looking hard enough!"

"When you are in hell you will know the Truth!"

I ate Pascal's Wafer · 07-14-2002, 09:38 PM

"Satan is really playing with your head now"

"I'm praying for you"

"You need the Holy Spirit to understand what I'm saying"

Hedwig · 07-14-2002, 10:54 PM

I'm constantly being told "Just open up your heart to Him and he will let you know the Truth!!!!!"

I have a very hard time not MSTing a response when that happens. I think they genuinely feel that the validity of the argument is directly related to the number of exclaimation points they post.

Perchance · 07-15-2002, 07:03 AM

In person:

"You're being intolerant towards fundamentalists!"

"Abortion is against my religion! You're persecuting my religious beliefs by being for it!"

"You just don't understand the Christian view of things."

"You can't possibly BELIEVE that."

"God is all around you. I'm sorry you're too blind to see him."

"Jesus died for you. Don't you care about that?"

"It's just my opinion. Everybody has their own opinion and no one's is more valid than anyone else's."

"But Heaven and Hell exist."

(These last two were from the same person, my sister. Tell me... if everything is only someone else's opinion, why does she believe that Heaven and Hell objectively exist?)

Online:

"I'll keep you in my prayers."

"I have won a spiritual victory."

"I think this is a waste of time. I'm not going to be convinced, and I'm not going to convince you." (As if the only purpose of an argument was to convert people, and the Christian lost all interest once he realized I wasn't going to be converted!)

"You're being offensive to me!"

"You haven't answered my arguments. There's no point in me sticking around here."

"But why does it bother you if theists are theists?" (To which my response is: "Why does it bother you if non-believers are non-believers?" No answer ever comes. Does anyone know the answer to this one?)

"You're being closed-minded."

-Perchance.

butswana · 07-15-2002, 12:45 PM

All of my confrontations are in person. Following one withering volley after another, I confirmed kill is signified by:
"FUCK YOU", "SHUT UP", or fisticuffs(severity varies).

Jimmy Higgins · 07-15-2002, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butswana:
<strong>All of my confrontations are in person. Following one withering volley after another, I confirmed kill is signified by:
"FUCK YOU", "SHUT UP", or fisticuffs(severity varies).</strong>

Is that them saying "Fuck You"? If so, good show!

cydonia · 07-15-2002, 06:09 PM

This is one i've experienced, usually while talking about bashing babies heads against the rocks, stoning unruly children to death, raping and pillaging etc:

(paraphrasing)
"I wouldn't do that either, but God's ways are not our ways. Our minds aren't capable of comprehending his reasons. As Chrisitians we know that God has a reason for what he does, and in the end we'll know what they are."

Anyone come across this one? It's pretty frustrating because i feel we have an innate sense of what is wrong (especially needless violence). They try to compare God to a loving father who can't help the child he told not to run into the street and ends up getting killed by traffic. But when you ask if a loving father would stone his child to death, all of the sudden we can't talk about comparing God to normal people anymore.

Catseye · 07-16-2002, 05:41 AM

"You obviously haven't read your Bible."

This was in a conversation where I'd just quoted several Bible verses to illustrate my point, and asked her exactly where in the Bible her point was. After half an hour of conversation that went like this, too:

(her) "You're wrong! The Bible doesn't say that!"
(me) "Yes, it does, because look, it's in this verse here, and this one, and this one, and this one. Now, where does it say what you're saying?"
(her) "In the Bible!"
(me) "Where in the Bible?"
(her) "In the Bible!"

Gah...

Also, 'I'm getting bored of this conversation, can't we move on to something else?' - at the exact point where the person I was talking to had just been completely backed into a corner. How convenient...

07-14-2002, 07:22 PM	#1
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Alright, here's a collection type thread. You've been arguing online or in person, with someone on religion. You've been going back and forth and then finally you've got them in a corner. Perhaps it was a contradiction or a lie or a false premise. In any case, you've got them licked. You are licking your chops ready to finish them off, but then something happens. Its as if the Christian has turned back the clock, nothing has ever been said, and they are right. Its a defense mechanism they have, and its worked for them for this long. They post and then disappear. What defense mechanism have you noticed used the most? "Why are you posting here?"

07-14-2002, 08:37 PM	#2
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	You have your opinion and I have mine That still does not change the fact that god exists I'm so sorry for your damned soul YOU MUST BELIEVE!!! #!@$% I have better things to do Be that as it may, god still wants you to believe in him But you must believe! Forget about reason, just BELIEVE! Whatever You just don't want to see the evidence You have closed your heart to him I will be praying for you I'm so sorry you believe that Then what's stopping you from killing and eating babies? You're not welcome in this forum anymore. You're just biased! The fool saith in his heart there is no god Psalms 14:1 I hate to be in your shoes Keep an open mind! Jesus still loves you Note: This list does not imply that the original post does not contain misspellings. (Sorry for the double negative!)

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07-14-2002, 08:53 PM	#3
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	"I approach Him by FAITH! Do you understand what FAITH is?" "It's my personal experience. I have experienced HIM!" "You are not looking hard enough!" "When you are in hell you will know the Truth!"

07-14-2002, 09:38 PM	#4
I ate Pascal's Wafer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,460	"Satan is really playing with your head now" "I'm praying for you" "You need the Holy Spirit to understand what I'm saying"

07-14-2002, 10:54 PM	#5
Hedwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,921	I'm constantly being told "Just open up your heart to Him and he will let you know the Truth!!!!!" I have a very hard time not MSTing a response when that happens. I think they genuinely feel that the validity of the argument is directly related to the number of exclaimation points they post.

07-15-2002, 07:03 AM	#6
Perchance Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,059	In person: "You're being intolerant towards fundamentalists!" "Abortion is against my religion! You're persecuting my religious beliefs by being for it!" "You just don't understand the Christian view of things." "You can't possibly BELIEVE that." "God is all around you. I'm sorry you're too blind to see him." "Jesus died for you. Don't you care about that?" "It's just my opinion. Everybody has their own opinion and no one's is more valid than anyone else's." "But Heaven and Hell exist." (These last two were from the same person, my sister. Tell me... if everything is only someone else's opinion, why does she believe that Heaven and Hell objectively exist?) Online: "I'll keep you in my prayers." "I have won a spiritual victory." "I think this is a waste of time. I'm not going to be convinced, and I'm not going to convince you." (As if the only purpose of an argument was to convert people, and the Christian lost all interest once he realized I wasn't going to be converted!) "You're being offensive to me!" "You haven't answered my arguments. There's no point in me sticking around here." "But why does it bother you if theists are theists?" (To which my response is: "Why does it bother you if non-believers are non-believers?" No answer ever comes. Does anyone know the answer to this one?) "You're being closed-minded." -Perchance.

07-15-2002, 12:45 PM	#7
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	All of my confrontations are in person. Following one withering volley after another, I confirmed kill is signified by: "FUCK YOU", "SHUT UP", or fisticuffs(severity varies).

07-15-2002, 06:09 PM	#9
cydonia Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: southern california Posts: 1,002	This is one i've experienced, usually while talking about bashing babies heads against the rocks, stoning unruly children to death, raping and pillaging etc: (paraphrasing) "I wouldn't do that either, but God's ways are not our ways. Our minds aren't capable of comprehending his reasons. As Chrisitians we know that God has a reason for what he does, and in the end we'll know what they are." Anyone come across this one? It's pretty frustrating because i feel we have an innate sense of what is wrong (especially needless violence). They try to compare God to a loving father who can't help the child he told not to run into the street and ends up getting killed by traffic. But when you ask if a loving father would stone his child to death, all of the sudden we can't talk about comparing God to normal people anymore.

07-16-2002, 05:41 AM	#10
Catseye Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: UK Posts: 145	"You obviously haven't read your Bible." This was in a conversation where I'd just quoted several Bible verses to illustrate my point, and asked her exactly where in the Bible her point was. After half an hour of conversation that went like this, too: (her) "You're wrong! The Bible doesn't say that!" (me) "Yes, it does, because look, it's in this verse here, and this one, and this one, and this one. Now, where does it say what you're saying?" (her) "In the Bible!" (me) "Where in the Bible?" (her) "In the Bible!" Gah... Also, 'I'm getting bored of this conversation, can't we move on to something else?' - at the exact point where the person I was talking to had just been completely backed into a corner. How convenient...

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