mark9950

1 Sam 16:14
1 Sam 16:15
1 Sam 16:16

Sci_Fidelity

*Bump*

I'd like to see some xian responses to this-

Magus55

Here is an explanation from David Guzik( Blueletterbible):

B. Saul's distressing spirit

1. (14) As the Holy Spirit comes upon David, He departs from Saul, and a distressing (troublesome) spirit comes

a. When the Holy Spirit departed from Saul, he lost his spiritual "protection"; God did not have to send distressing spirit so much as He simply needed to create vacuum by withdrawing the Holy Spirit from Saul

i. This is why the continual presence of the Holy Spirit for all Christians is such a comfort (Romans 8:9-11; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20)
ii. Ellison on the distressing spirit: "With us it suggests a spirit that was morally evil . . . here it merely conveys the thought that the outcome of his working was calamitous for Saul."


b. Why? Perhaps this was to judge Saul's past wickedness and rebellion against the Holy Spirit's guidance; God may be "giving him over" to his sin
c. Perhaps as well, this was meant to drive Saul to repentance and a renewed dependence on God

d. Saul would probably be diagnosed as mentally ill; yet his problem was spiritual in nature, not mental or psychological.


i. There are many people in mental hospitals today who are really suffering from spiritual problems; though it is wrong to assume that every case of mental distress is spiritual; chemical imbalances and physiological problems are also real


So basically, its not "evil" in the sense you are thinking of, its replacing the Holy Spirit to bring out Saul's sins and bring him to repentence. It highlights Saul's sins so to speak.

Sci_Fidelity

And your evidence is?

Sci_Fidelity

Posted by Magus:




Which part of "evil" do you disagree with? Is this a translation error? Or one of your allegorical passages?

mike_decock

I read a few of the apologetic commentaries on this passage, and they all circumvent the obvious issue in the text, that the evil spirit was from the Lord.

-Mike...

braces_for_impact

Cherry picking at it's best!

Maraschino anyone?

malookiemaloo

The Spirit was from the Lord not in the sense that God is the source of evil but that God uses evil for His own purposes. Even Satan himself is subject to God's authority-see Job Chapter one.

Cyrus is referred to as the Lord's annointed but not in the sense that he was God's servant, rather he was His instrument.


m

mike_decock

It's debatable whether or not God is the source of evil:

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That wasn't my main point, though. Most of the Christian commentaries I read on those verses tried to spin it similar to:

God did not have to send distressing spirit so much as He simply needed to create vacuum by withdrawing the Holy Spirit from Saul

This is directly contrary to the text. The evil spirit was from the Lord. Most Christians seem to have a great reluctance admitting that God is described as being the source, cause, creator or sender of evil.

Take a look at the Jewish interpretations of those verses, the book of Job and the role of Satan. They have no problem seeing God as the source of evil and Satan being an angelic messenger (not a fallen angel).

Outreach Judaism

Although this well-known Christian doctrine has much in common with the pagan Zoroastrian Persian dualism out of which it was born, it is completely alien to the teachings of the Jewish faith and the words of the Jewish scriptures. In fact, the Christian teaching that Satan was originally intended by God to be a good angel but, in an act of outright defiance, ceased to function as God had intended him to, suggests that God created something imperfect or defective.

For the Jewish faith, Satan’s purpose in seducing man away from God poses no problem because Satan is only an agent of God. As a servant of the Almighty, Satan faithfully carries out the divine will of his Creator as he does in all his tasks.

When it comes to interpretations of "difficult" verses in the OT, I find the Jewish interpretations to make much more sense as they are less contrived. The reason those verses are "difficult" is because Christian theology contradicts OT theology.

-Mike...

malookiemaloo

On Isaiah 45:7 my version (NIV) says 'I create disasters'. Can't comment on the precise meaning of the Hebrew to be honest.

I have never had a problem with God using evil for His purposes although, to many, this is a difficult area.

Theology of OT v NT? The only difference in I can see is that in Jesus taught us to call God our Father, whereas in the OT He is LORD, Lord, Lord God etc.

As a University professor once said 'the only difference between the OT and the NT is that in the NT the Word became flesh.'


m