Nialler

Red Dave is certainly vehement in his condemnation, but I must express some agreement with him.

i was recently asked whether I would stand as a godfather at a catholic baptism. I refused on the basis that I would have nothing to do with a ceremony which was bound in such a deeply offensive assumption as it is. The idea that this child - my nephew - is guilty of anything when it is obvious that he is not possessed of understanding fills me with disgust.

What happens to this child if he dies unbaptised through no fault of his own? Does he go to hell? Answer me, Magus, and prepare a strong support for your position.

Celsus

Well I fail to see any BC&H connection here. Off to GRD.

Joel

braces_for_impact

Here Here!

Magus55 I noticed you showed up to throw another statement at us, but have still neglected to answer the question!

It must be awfully uncomfortable for these 'new fundies'. They are always trying to seperate themselves from the Catholics, but they rely on their scriptures, interpretations of those scriptures, and their general orthodoxy. I find this endlessly amusing.

Simple job for anyone who wants to tackle it: Show how your version of an omnibenevolent god can co exist with the existence of hell, and the existence of evil in this world. Please note that answers like "We can't possibly fathom his grand design with our teenie tiny brains" is not an explanation, but a dodge. You must also provide your reasoning for your explanation. If you attempt to use the bible as evidence, it may also be used as evidence for the rebuttle.

Have fun!

mike_decock

This is false. Just look at Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Adam and Eve were not immortal before eating from the tree of knowledge. The serpent told the truth, they did not die when they at the fruit. Yahweh lied to them to try to keep them ignorant. Once they gained knowledge, they were banned in because they could have gained eternal life as well.

-Mike...

Magus55

Im assuming you mean infant baptism in water? That does absolutely nothing except get the child wet. I consider the Roman Catholic Church and its false doctrines to be mostly heresy, so not even gonna get into the discussion on infant baptism. Baptism by water doesn't save, and infant baptism is worthless - with no scriptural backing whatsoever.

Godless Dave

Magus, I asked you in this thread what Biblical basis you use for calling the Devil "Lucifer" but you must have missed it. Also, what is the Biblical basis for the term "Archangel"?

Magus55

Let me guess, you assume God is nothing but omnibenevolent, and he has no other divine characteristics whatsoever?

Yes God is loving, but He is also righteous as I have explained extensively before. God doesn't want ANYONE to face judgement, but being perfectly righteous means he has to punish lawbreakers (sinners). Since you can never make amends or pay back the debt to God for breaking His laws in any amount of time, the punishment is eternal. Everyone deserves this punishment, because absolutely no one meets up to God's standards of glory and holiness - For all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. God, not being content with His creation having no chance of escaping righteous judgement, payed the debt that we can't so that we can be redeemed through Him (His loving side). But God can only open the door to salvation - you have to make the choice to walk through it. If you choose to reject His gift, then you choose to be separated from God because you are still living in sin and chose not to be "cleaned" of it. So, the only place in existence that God separates himself from, is Hell.

There is no inbetween. There is Hot and Cold, Good and Evil, Heaven and Hell. You make the choice between those - you don't get to make up more options.

nogods4me

Why not you seem to have made much of this story up from whole cloth. Where in the Bible did you find all that info?

Biff the unclean

No scriptural backing? For baptism?
When did that become important to you?
You already told us about the war in heaven. That exists solely in Roman Catholic tradition. It's nowhere in the Reader's Digest condensed version of the bible Prods like you use.

Did you join this Southern Baptist cult that you belong to because it enabled you to justify hating the largest number of people, or did you adopt this misanthropic nature only after you joined?

Nialler

Magus,

Indeed it was infant baptism.

I am assured that there is plenty of biblical justification for this rite, and I am sure that when I post references to it, you will merely impose your own interpretation on them, so I'm not certain that it is worth the effort. Oh gone, then, read Romans 5 and Psalm 51 and 1 Cor 15:22.

I will, however, refer you to the actions of the god in which you believe by asking you one question: why, if a baby is *not* born with original sin - as you seem to recognise - would your god drown so many of them in the flood that you claim was a reality? Why would he drown children who had not yet reached the level of concsiousness that would allow them determine the difference between right and wrong? Before you say that he had foreknowledge that they would lead evil lives, I must caution you to that such an argument contradicts the concept of free will.