SimplyAtheistic

It is amazing how christians can jump through hoops and interpret the bible to the point of absurdity and still claim it is the word of god. God seriously needs to take some writing lessons so his next book will be concise and straightforward.
Jake

Biff the unclean

Too funny! How many of you humanists behave with tolerance towards a Christian or any other person of religious belief?
Surely you can't be that naïve. Humanists are not tolerant of the inhumane. Not of Nazis or the Klan or any other group that is a danger to human life and an affront to human dignity. Including your religion.

I accept people no matter what.
An odd thing to say in the very next paragraph after attacking Humanists.

There are plenty of things in the New Testament we are admonished to follow. One of them is "no laying with another man".
You…"accept people no matter what"…really ?

We try to lead a Christ-like life.
Pull the other one!
You try to lead whatever Christ-life fragments appeal to you and chuck the rest in the old circular file.
Being prejudiced against vile sodomites appeals to you so you use Jesus as a smoke screen. You aren't prejudiced these are orders from god almighty. You are only following orders (where did we hear that before?) If it didn't appeal to your whims you would find a way that Jesus and Yahweh weren't against homosexuality. We see it all the time.
In other words you do whatever you damn well please and then interpret Jesus as supporting you.

EstherRose

You just proved my point. Without really knowing me, but knowing I am a born again, you've labeled me according to your negative stereotype without taking the time to see me for who I am. Without any understanding of who I am, you've managed to dump me in with the Klan, the Nazis and the most narrowminded bigoted yahoos. I'd be one of the first people targeted by those groups despite my Christianity and their so-called Christianity.

winstonjen

To the OP: I would say that especially fundies would need and do twist the bible to suit their own ends.

I disagree. "Love the sin, hate the sinner" is a cop-out. You shouldn't change the behaviour of others unless they are hurting other people if you really love them.

emur

You may not emotionally despise people. But let me give you this scenario: A Christian leader helps a woman in his church who is being emotionally abused by her fundie husband. She is also the church secretary and the choir director. Husband goes to a higher-up in the association to complain. Higher-up tells the Christian leader to have no further contact with the woman, and that the woman is to step down as secretary and as choir director. This eliminates the need for contact between the leader and the woman. Leader and woman refuse. Higher-up threatens to bring leader before a board of the association and makes it clear that unless he changes, he may be expelled permanently from the association. Higher-up also meets with husband, and confronts elder of leader's church in husband's presence. Husband uses confrontation as support that higher-up is on his side. When shown this, higher-up denies supporting husband.

No matter how you slice it, this higher-up is being unloving to the leader and the woman. Yet it is OK, because the higher-up is standing up for God, the church, and preserving the church's image. Note that Romans 1 includes being unloving in the list of sins given there.

As I pointed out in my above post, there are plenty of other things the NT forbids, like gossip, pride, being unloving, lacking grace... Still, churches tolerate these behaviors all the time. It is blantant hypocrisy to go after the gays, while letting these other things slide.

Mel

AJ113

Fallacy of tu quoque. Whether you are correct or not this is a blatent attempt to direct attention away from the original accusation which was that we christians have rarely been onserved being tolerant. Keep to the point.

.....I accept people no matter what. What I don’t like is sin.....

So what makes you better than everyone else? The implication here is that you do not sin.

.....We try to live a life without sin. We know we will fall short but we try anyway.....

Ahh, so you DO sin! See, you're just as crap as the rest of us. Yes, even gays.

....... Many parts of the Law of Moses are included by the early Christians but not as Law, only as guidelines to follow while under God’s grace.......

Included in what, exactly?

....Jesus paid for our sins. ....

Really? So there's no need for hell then, is there?

DMB

I was listening to a short debate on this last night on BBC2's Newsnight between an evangelical and the former Bishop of Durham (who is on the liberal wing of the CofE). The whole point is that the sole argument of the fundie was that the bible was "the word of God". So I repeat my question from the OP. If they are going to use Leviticus as ammunition on the grounds that it represents the word of their god,
It was quite interesting in that the bishop kept asking the fundie (and I don't recall his replying) whether he thought that God had shut up shop 2000 years ago or whether he had any new words for xians these days.

Incidentally, this row is going to run and run. A journalist pointed out that the archbishop from Nigeria who made such a fuss turns a blind eye to polygamy in his country and has not uttered one word of protest about islamic sentences of death by stoning for various unfortunate women.

The Dean of Southwark yesterday referred to the evangelicals who ousted the bishop as the Taleban of the CofE.

DMB

BTW, can anyone explain why this chap should be so unacceptable as a bishop? He is now celibate and I can't see what is wrong even by the standards of the bible, in his having a loving, chaste relationship with another man.

EstherRose

Please show me where in my life I have tried to change anyone? Or are you basing this on your negative viewpoint of fundies?

The same scenario can occur in the workplace environment that is not religious. Would you also condemn that boss for his inhumane attitude? Or is it just a Christian you will chastise?

Perhaps you need to take a look at a church. I’ve seen plenty that focus on all of these behaviors. Although to take sides for a moment, how many people are shoving those other behaviors into our faces and demanding we all accept them whether we wish to or not.


Please, you know what I was saying. You’re trying to twist my words around to mean something else.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Hugo Holbling

Well, that was my point, such as it was. Fundamentalists pick and choose which teachings they accept, but that is surely what we would hope for; that is, we can criticise them for not being consistent, but it makes little sense to expect them to counter this with renewed literal vigour. Pointing out that Christianity must at least be dynamic is likely to prove more successful than recourse to scriptural contradiction, i'd guess. Conversely, remarking on the latter is unlikely to be fruitful in discussions with liberal Christians.