Freethought & Rationalism Archive

emotional · 08-06-2001, 04:15 PM

I know about Buddhism that it is divided into two main schools, "Theravada" ("way of the elders", if I recall correctly) and "Mahayana" ("the great vehicle"). I don't know what underlies the differences between them (Mahayana perhaps more eclectic? Dunno. RT gives mainly about Theravada), but I have a question pertaining to nomenclature, if anyone has knowledge:

The Theravada school is often called "Hinayana", but I've read somewhere (National Geographic) that such a name should not be used, because it's derogatory, meaning "the little vehicle" (in opposition to Mahayana). Question is, why did the Buddhists come to give such a name to a rival school? I'm quite used to fundachristians calling non-fundies "wolves" or "hypocrites" or "lukewarm liberal", but Buddhists making a derogatory appellation for a different school? Damn it, I thought the Buddhists were above that childish junk!

So maybe it's all a misunderstanding, and there's a good reason for all this (though I can't think of a good reason for a disrespectful name for rivals). Please enlighten me (no pun intended).

Eudaimonist · 08-06-2001, 05:05 PM

devnet, childish junk is a universal constant.

emotional · 08-06-2001, 05:31 PM

Yeah, you can say that again. Somehow I was deluding myself Buddhism was free of the vices found in the Abrahamic lunacies. I suppose the Buddha was OK (the story is told that he answered the god-exists debate with "who cares?" - he wouldn't be a productive debater at our EoG forum), but the modern Buddhists may have slightly changed.

Congrats on your new site, Eudaimon. BTW, you can't link your picture from Geocities here. The Geo-people don't let it, I've tried linking pics from my own website and they've all failed (thanks for Pitshade for notifying me). So no-one can see your photo on the profile except by copying the URL and pasting it to the address bar and going there.

Pity, I'd still like to know how the Theravada Buddhist school came to be called Hinayana by their Mahayana rivals. A shame for a relatively tolerant religion, I'd say.

Eudaimonist · 08-06-2001, 09:14 PM

devnet wrote: Congrats on your new site, Eudaimon.

Thanks.

BTW, you can't link your picture from Geocities here. The Geo-people don't let it, I've tried linking pics from my own website and they've all failed (thanks for Pitshade for notifying me). So no-one can see your photo on the profile except by copying the URL and pasting it to the address bar and going there.

Thanks for letting me know. Yeah, that is a pain.

SingleDad · 08-06-2001, 09:23 PM

Anyone who wants his or her picture linked to Infidels is welcome to email me and I will place it on my personal web server, as space permits.

blobrum · 08-06-2001, 11:15 PM

Apparently, in the Hinayana, the ideal is personal enlightenment, hence the idea of a 'small vehicle,' i.e. one that is only large enough to take an individual 'over.' The Mahayana ideal is, I think, not so much individual enlightment, or not only that, but staying in the world and working for the benefit of all beings, i.e. constructing a vehicle large enough for everyone to get wherever we're supposed to go.

I'm not sure that the term is intended in a derogatory sense. It would be instructive to know whether the Hinayanans refer to themselves as such.

Cornelius · 08-07-2001, 12:00 AM

Anyone who doubts that Buddhism can be just as intolerant as any other religion should read the Lotus Sutra. There is one chapter that devotes a great amount of space to describing the torment that will be inflicted on those who reject its teaching.

Sorry you have to be disillusioned devnet, I half-heartedly embraced Buddhism for a time until I realized that it was like other religions, full of superstitions and lacking in critical thought.

regards,

Cornelius

emotional · 08-07-2001, 04:32 AM

Which chapter is it? I've found a translation of the Lotus Sutra here, but they don't give titles to the chapters.

Similarly, the Sikh and Baha'i faiths are relatively tolerant (in comparison to Islam, for instance), but you'll find in Sikh texts denunciation of the Manmukh (one who is attached to the world and ignorant of God) as dogs and swine, and in the Baha'i texts admonitions of those who reject the messages of the manifestations (prophets) of God.

What I dislike in Buddhism (and some other religions) is the regarding of this natural Universe as maya, illusion. Certainly our stay is temporary, but it's real and worth it. I feel quite repelled by religions which reject this world or see the whole purpose of life as sucking up to a transcendent (fictional, more like) creator. I like this world, I'm truly attached to it and I think it's wonderful despite all sorrows. I'm a Manmukh and proud of it.

Worldliness

Eudaimonist · 08-07-2001, 07:33 AM

My picture is now easily seen in my profile. Thanks, SingleDad!

kctan · 08-07-2001, 07:33 AM

The only thing about buddhism which is of real worth are the ones teaching on causes & effects (The Four Noble Truth). Which is the main fundalmental in the whole teachings of the buddha as I see it. It also provides a way to recognise one's "self" IMO.

BTW Mahayana (big vehicle or shelter) & Theravada differs mainly in that Theravada believes that one should strive for Arhathood which is personal enlightenment while Mahayana think in terms of Bodhisattvahood & Buddhahood as the supreme in enlightenment inorder to help the rest attain enlightenment as well. There are also differing views within each school of thoughts breaking the whole Buddhism into 18-20 sects (yes, some even touch on the reality as reality & not just an illusion).

PS For more info pls don't ask me as its quite impossible for me to translate it from chinese into english especially on the names & terms used.

08-06-2001, 04:15 PM	#1
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Why "Hinayana"? I know about Buddhism that it is divided into two main schools, "Theravada" ("way of the elders", if I recall correctly) and "Mahayana" ("the great vehicle"). I don't know what underlies the differences between them (Mahayana perhaps more eclectic? Dunno. RT gives mainly about Theravada), but I have a question pertaining to nomenclature, if anyone has knowledge: The Theravada school is often called "Hinayana", but I've read somewhere (National Geographic) that such a name should not be used, because it's derogatory, meaning "the little vehicle" (in opposition to Mahayana). Question is, why did the Buddhists come to give such a name to a rival school? I'm quite used to fundachristians calling non-fundies "wolves" or "hypocrites" or "lukewarm liberal", but Buddhists making a derogatory appellation for a different school? Damn it, I thought the Buddhists were above that childish junk! So maybe it's all a misunderstanding, and there's a good reason for all this (though I can't think of a good reason for a disrespectful name for rivals). Please enlighten me (no pun intended).

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08-06-2001, 05:05 PM	#2
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	devnet, childish junk is a universal constant.

08-06-2001, 05:31 PM	#3
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Yeah, you can say that again. Somehow I was deluding myself Buddhism was free of the vices found in the Abrahamic lunacies. I suppose the Buddha was OK (the story is told that he answered the god-exists debate with "who cares?" - he wouldn't be a productive debater at our EoG forum), but the modern Buddhists may have slightly changed. Congrats on your new site, Eudaimon. BTW, you can't link your picture from Geocities here. The Geo-people don't let it, I've tried linking pics from my own website and they've all failed (thanks for Pitshade for notifying me). So no-one can see your photo on the profile except by copying the URL and pasting it to the address bar and going there. Pity, I'd still like to know how the Theravada Buddhist school came to be called Hinayana by their Mahayana rivals. A shame for a relatively tolerant religion, I'd say.

08-06-2001, 09:14 PM	#4
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	devnet wrote: Congrats on your new site, Eudaimon. Thanks. BTW, you can't link your picture from Geocities here. The Geo-people don't let it, I've tried linking pics from my own website and they've all failed (thanks for Pitshade for notifying me). So no-one can see your photo on the profile except by copying the URL and pasting it to the address bar and going there. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah, that is a pain.

08-06-2001, 09:23 PM	#5
SingleDad Banned Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Littleton, CO, USA Posts: 1,477	Anyone who wants his or her picture linked to Infidels is welcome to email me and I will place it on my personal web server, as space permits.

08-06-2001, 11:15 PM	#6
blobrum New Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 1	Apparently, in the Hinayana, the ideal is personal enlightenment, hence the idea of a 'small vehicle,' i.e. one that is only large enough to take an individual 'over.' The Mahayana ideal is, I think, not so much individual enlightment, or not only that, but staying in the world and working for the benefit of all beings, i.e. constructing a vehicle large enough for everyone to get wherever we're supposed to go. I'm not sure that the term is intended in a derogatory sense. It would be instructive to know whether the Hinayanans refer to themselves as such.

08-07-2001, 12:00 AM	#7
Cornelius Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 209	Anyone who doubts that Buddhism can be just as intolerant as any other religion should read the Lotus Sutra. There is one chapter that devotes a great amount of space to describing the torment that will be inflicted on those who reject its teaching. Sorry you have to be disillusioned devnet, I half-heartedly embraced Buddhism for a time until I realized that it was like other religions, full of superstitions and lacking in critical thought. regards, Cornelius

08-07-2001, 04:32 AM	#8
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Which chapter is it? I've found a translation of the Lotus Sutra here, but they don't give titles to the chapters. Similarly, the Sikh and Baha'i faiths are relatively tolerant (in comparison to Islam, for instance), but you'll find in Sikh texts denunciation of the Manmukh (one who is attached to the world and ignorant of God) as dogs and swine, and in the Baha'i texts admonitions of those who reject the messages of the manifestations (prophets) of God. What I dislike in Buddhism (and some other religions) is the regarding of this natural Universe as maya, illusion. Certainly our stay is temporary, but it's real and worth it. I feel quite repelled by religions which reject this world or see the whole purpose of life as sucking up to a transcendent (fictional, more like) creator. I like this world, I'm truly attached to it and I think it's wonderful despite all sorrows. I'm a Manmukh and proud of it. Worldliness

08-07-2001, 07:33 AM	#9
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	My picture is now easily seen in my profile. Thanks, SingleDad!

08-07-2001, 07:33 AM	#10
kctan Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Heaven, just assasinated god Posts: 578	The only thing about buddhism which is of real worth are the ones teaching on causes & effects (The Four Noble Truth). Which is the main fundalmental in the whole teachings of the buddha as I see it. It also provides a way to recognise one's "self" IMO. BTW Mahayana (big vehicle or shelter) & Theravada differs mainly in that Theravada believes that one should strive for Arhathood which is personal enlightenment while Mahayana think in terms of Bodhisattvahood & Buddhahood as the supreme in enlightenment inorder to help the rest attain enlightenment as well. There are also differing views within each school of thoughts breaking the whole Buddhism into 18-20 sects (yes, some even touch on the reality as reality & not just an illusion). PS For more info pls don't ask me as its quite impossible for me to translate it from chinese into english especially on the names & terms used.

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