Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Soul Invictus · 05-18-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
The whole issue is sort of mucked up. You have the Christians on the one hand that are making very definite claims about the nature and qualities of god then there are the deists that don't really have much at all to say about god. I have no problem saying that I believe there is no Christian god based on the claims made about it but in regards to the deist god, not much to know, not much to say. The same goes for any other god I do not know about.

Starboy

What parts of my post were you able to identify with or had problems with?

Starboy · 05-18-2003, 08:36 PM

Thinking on it more, this is a very tricky business. There is a pencil that sits next to me on my desk. I could ask the question: 'Is this pencil god?' There is no way for me to know one way or the other. For that matter I could be god and this consciousness that is typing this very moment could be unaware of it on purpose. The concept of an infinite all-powerful being is beyond knowing or not knowing. It can't even be believed in because no one could comprehend what one was talking about. I have always thought it was a useless concept, the mental equivalent of division by zero. Any rational person would have to be an a-theist when it came to such a god.

Starboy

Starboy · 05-18-2003, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul Invictus
What parts of my post were you able to identify with or had problems with?

Sorry about that Soul Invictus, just rambling on. I think we agree, just different wording is all.

Starboy

Soul Invictus · 05-18-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Thinking on it more, this is a very tricky business. There is a pencil that sits next to me on my desk. I could ask the question: 'Is this pencil god?' There is no way for me to know one way or the other. For that matter I could be god and this consciousness that is typing this very moment could be unaware of it on purpose. The concept of an infinite all-powerful being is beyond knowing or not knowing. It can't even be believed in because no one could comprehend what one was talking about. I have always thought it was a useless concept, the mental equivalent of division by zero. Any rational person would have to be an a-theist when it came to such a god.

Starboy

I'm reading your posts and how philosophical you've taken it, and I'm laughing..especially the part about you could be god and your consciousness not knowing it's purpose. That was some vintage, yet hilarious material. It was funny, however I can see the importance of the perspective. I could concur on it being more about simply knowing vs not knowing. I do still feel it is a material part of the discussion. Good insight. Any additional comments?

hinduwoman · 05-18-2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
Thinking on it more, this is a very tricky business. There is a pencil that sits next to me on my desk. I could ask the question: 'Is this pencil god?' There is no way for me to know one way or the other. For that matter I could be god and this consciousness that is typing this very moment could be unaware of it on purpose. The concept of an infinite all-powerful being is beyond knowing or not knowing. It can't even be believed in because no one could comprehend what one was talking about. I have always thought it was a useless concept, the mental equivalent of division by zero. Any rational person would have to be an a-theist when it came to such a god.

Starboy

That is the Hindu philosophical position, I am afraid. Everyone and everything is God; you would realize it if only you tried to instead of thinking yourself as a discrete consciousness --- which makes any discussions about God pointless.

Soul Invictus · 05-18-2003, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
That is the Hindu philosophical position, I am afraid. Everyone and everything is God; you would realize it if only you tried to instead of thinking yourself as a discrete consciousness --- which makes any discussions about God pointless.

What, if any, texts do Hindus hold sacred?

Soul Invictus · 05-18-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman
That is the Hindu philosophical position, I am afraid. Everyone and everything is God; you would realize it if only you tried to instead of thinking yourself as a discrete consciousness --- which makes any discussions about God pointless.

Hinduwoman and Starboy,

I'm have a second job and I have to get ready for it. I count sheep 3rd shift and I don't want to be late. How frequent are you two on the Board. I'd love to discuss with you two.

Hotep!

Starboy · 05-18-2003, 09:02 PM

Catch you later!

Goliath · 05-21-2003, 08:05 PM

Soul Invictus,

Quote:

As I put in the previous thread, you have yet to entertain my theories,

I have probably not entertained you, no. However, I have destroyed your every argument in this thread.

Quote:

What problems do you (and the rest of the board for that matter) have with the definition?

Again, your dictionary definition is incorrect because it is inconsistent with the etymology of the word "atheist".

Quote:

I always thought the prefix "a" equated to not.

In some cases it can. This is irrelevant to your argument, however, as atheist still means either "not someone who believes that a god exists" or "someone without belief in the existence of gods." Heads, I win; tails, you lose.

Quote:

"a"theism would be a lack of this belief.

Correct! Now, if you could only realize that a lack of belief is not a belief.

Quote:

The issue is not whether or not your stance on the existence of gods is neutral or if you have no beliefs in it whatsoever.

Absolutely incorrect! The issue at hand is whether or not atheism is a belief. Since I am an atheist, and since I hold no beliefs regarding the existence or non-existence of any god whatsoever, my lack of belief is absolutely central to the discussion at hand!

Your arguments that atheism is a belief have been refuted time and time and time again. Why do you continue to reply when you have nothing new or interesting to add to the discussion?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Soul Invictus · 05-21-2003, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conchobar
You have to define what you mean by God. Is God the anthropomorphic god of Islamo-Christianity-Judaism? That god is historically refutable because its evolution in human thought can be traced back through polytheisms, spiritualism/animism of stone age people. That is enough to justify Atheism. If God is defined as intelligent but non-humanoid like the Deists, it is not measurable in any way. So one honestly must be agnostic.

Conchobar

Quote:

Originally posted by Conchobar
You have to define what you mean by God. Is God the anthropomorphic god of Islamo-Christianity-Judaism? That god is historically refutable because its evolution in human thought can be traced back through polytheisms, spiritualism/animism of stone age people. That is enough to justify Atheism. If God is defined as intelligent but non-humanoid like the Deists, it is not measurable in any way. So one honestly must be agnostic.

Conchobar

Conchobar,

Maybe my grammar needs tuning or maybe you misunderstand me. Maybe both. I'll try again. The focus is the reference of God.

When choosing to entertain the discussion regarding the existence of God, your belief is either

1) Affirmative - that existence is present
2) Negative - that existence is not present

Either way it's a belief, because when discussing issues your stance is either affirmative or negative, however the matters are either that of fact (provable) or opinion (unprovable, which is going to be the case for any theistic issues)

How's that work for you?

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05-18-2003, 08:36 PM	#82
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Thinking on it more, this is a very tricky business. There is a pencil that sits next to me on my desk. I could ask the question: 'Is this pencil god?' There is no way for me to know one way or the other. For that matter I could be god and this consciousness that is typing this very moment could be unaware of it on purpose. The concept of an infinite all-powerful being is beyond knowing or not knowing. It can't even be believed in because no one could comprehend what one was talking about. I have always thought it was a useless concept, the mental equivalent of division by zero. Any rational person would have to be an a-theist when it came to such a god. Starboy

05-18-2003, 09:02 PM	#88
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Catch you later!

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