Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corgan Sow · 10-22-2002, 02:09 AM

God exists.

Where have we heard that? Theists who believed in a human god/gods, of course. They still cannot grasp that it is possible because we have the largest cranium among all species. Among their excuses are:

- Our aesthetic qualities are outstanding compared to other animals, which is still in primitive stages. Examples? Beethoven, Picasso, Da Vinci and Micheangelo, to quote a few.

- Compared to dinosaurs, we homo sapiens evolved much more and the evidence we have today are thousands of years of civilisation, literature, philosophy and scientific development.

- Animals cannot build tools and built as advanced as humans.

- Animals do not have souls. Humans do.

- Animals do not have complex emotions like greed, hatred, etc.

Some naive thoughts...

No wonder religion rules...whatever.

bluefugue · 10-22-2002, 11:46 AM

We're not really superior by any objective yardstick. As a species we are certainly thriving, but then so are bacteria, ants, cockroaches, etc. I will say the one edge we have, survivalwise, is that we can (theoretically) get off the planet and thus spread our genome beyond the doomed sun. But we will be taking lots of bacteria and dustmites with us when we go...

Friar Bellows · 10-22-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IesusDomini:
<strong>We're not really superior by any objective yardstick.</strong>

What's not objective about our superior ability to build things? We can build things that can...

calculate at ridiculously fast speeds, capture and reproduce moving images of the real world, detect incredibly tiny objects like elementary particles, detect amazingly large objects like galaxy superclusters, fly to the moon and back, travel at speeds several times faster than the speed of sound, destroy entire mountains, hold back the flow of giant rivers, etc etc...

I don't see anything subjective about our superior ability to build things.

On the other hand, if you believe that the only objective yardstick is survival, then you have a point.

GeoTheo · 10-22-2002, 05:25 PM

Whats wrong with being superior to animals?
Must atheists disbelieve it merely because Christians say it?

Arrowman · 10-22-2002, 05:54 PM

We fill a niche.

The rest of the world has rabbits, South America has Patagonian Cavys. Australia had Kangaroos, Hopping Mice and Wallabies. Then rabbits were imported. There's a place for everything. There's probably (demonstrably, perhaps) only room on the planet for one animal with our characteristics. If human characteristics had evolved independently in two places, it is likely that one would had supplanted the other. In fact, it is possible that is exactly what happened to Neanderthals. We fill a niche.

GeoTheo · 10-22-2002, 06:08 PM

Even though, I guess it is presumptuous of me to think us humans are superior, If I ever have surgery done on me, I will make sure the surgeon is human and not a chimpanzee or a dolphin or a dog.

jkb · 10-22-2002, 06:22 PM

yeah and if I ever want to track down
escaped convicts by smell, i will be sure to use a dog not a human.

Doubting Didymus · 10-22-2002, 06:24 PM

Well, I don't know what superior refers to in this case, but we are certainly capable of a lot more. The question is: does this suggest that a god likes us? I can't see why this might be implied, any more than this means that god hates rocks, who are capable of sod all.

elwoodblues · 10-22-2002, 06:28 PM

I've never seen a nailed-down distinction between humans and other animals, except for ONE. Language production. All other differences are of degree, nothing more.

Not to say I'm a vegetarian; I'm not. I eat bacon and turkey and burgers with much aplomb. I don't think I could eat a puppy sandwich unless my life depended on it, but I've got no problem with veal.

Inconsistent? Maybe. But I'm human. It comes with the franchise.

Splat · 10-22-2002, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
<strong>If I ever have surgery done on me, I will make sure the surgeon is a chimpanzee or a dolphin or a dog.</strong>

Wow, I've always wanted to doctor a quote like a creationist or anti CSS-er. It's so easy!

10-22-2002, 02:09 AM	#1
Corgan Sow Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,537	Humans are more superior than animals, therefore... God exists. Where have we heard that? Theists who believed in a human god/gods, of course. They still cannot grasp that it is possible because we have the largest cranium among all species. Among their excuses are: - Our aesthetic qualities are outstanding compared to other animals, which is still in primitive stages. Examples? Beethoven, Picasso, Da Vinci and Micheangelo, to quote a few. - Compared to dinosaurs, we homo sapiens evolved much more and the evidence we have today are thousands of years of civilisation, literature, philosophy and scientific development. - Animals cannot build tools and built as advanced as humans. - Animals do not have souls. Humans do. - Animals do not have complex emotions like greed, hatred, etc. Some naive thoughts... No wonder religion rules...whatever.

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10-22-2002, 11:46 AM	#2
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	We're not really superior by any objective yardstick. As a species we are certainly thriving, but then so are bacteria, ants, cockroaches, etc. I will say the one edge we have, survivalwise, is that we can (theoretically) get off the planet and thus spread our genome beyond the doomed sun. But we will be taking lots of bacteria and dustmites with us when we go...

10-22-2002, 05:25 PM	#4
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Whats wrong with being superior to animals? Must atheists disbelieve it merely because Christians say it?

10-22-2002, 05:54 PM	#5
Arrowman Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 1,358	We fill a niche. The rest of the world has rabbits, South America has Patagonian Cavys. Australia had Kangaroos, Hopping Mice and Wallabies. Then rabbits were imported. There's a place for everything. There's probably (demonstrably, perhaps) only room on the planet for one animal with our characteristics. If human characteristics had evolved independently in two places, it is likely that one would had supplanted the other. In fact, it is possible that is exactly what happened to Neanderthals. We fill a niche.

10-22-2002, 06:08 PM	#6
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Even though, I guess it is presumptuous of me to think us humans are superior, If I ever have surgery done on me, I will make sure the surgeon is human and not a chimpanzee or a dolphin or a dog.

10-22-2002, 06:22 PM	#7
jkb Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 12	yeah and if I ever want to track down escaped convicts by smell, i will be sure to use a dog not a human.

10-22-2002, 06:24 PM	#8
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Well, I don't know what superior refers to in this case, but we are certainly capable of a lot more. The question is: does this suggest that a god likes us? I can't see why this might be implied, any more than this means that god hates rocks, who are capable of sod all.

10-22-2002, 06:28 PM	#9
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	I've never seen a nailed-down distinction between humans and other animals, except for ONE. Language production. All other differences are of degree, nothing more. Not to say I'm a vegetarian; I'm not. I eat bacon and turkey and burgers with much aplomb. I don't think I could eat a puppy sandwich unless my life depended on it, but I've got no problem with veal. Inconsistent? Maybe. But I'm human. It comes with the franchise.

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