Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jewel · 07-23-2003, 04:56 AM

Quote:

PHOENIX -- Gov. Janet Napolitano will not order the removal of the Ten Commandments from a state-owned park, paving the way for a court battle.

Napolitano acknowledged Monday that most courts which have looked at the issue have concluded that identical or similar displays cannot be located on public property. But Napolitano, who as attorney general banned religious symbols from public areas of that agency's office, said she has no intention of banning the six-foot granite monument.

"What I understand is there is some discussion of moving the plaque to private land,'' she said, a reference to an offer by the Fraternal Order of Eagles, which donated it to the state in 1964, to take it back.

But Ray Spencer, who is representing the Phoenix chapter in talks with the state, said that offer was made only as a contingency if the state orders the monument removed.

He said the Eagles are not voluntarily seeking its return.

The other option, said Napolitano, is the issue "will be resolved in court.''

Worldtraveller · 07-23-2003, 05:23 AM

I don't think it will help, But I wrote the governor a letter saying how dissappointed I was in her actions, especially in light of the voluntary removal of a similar display in the Grand Canyon national park just a few weeks ago.

At least SOMEONE in Az is displaying some sense.

Cheers,
Lane

Stephen Maturin · 07-23-2003, 05:37 AM

Governor Napolitano could have saved the state some money here, but hey, never let it be said that a politican let a little thing like frivolous expenditure of public funds stand in the way of avoiding what might prove to be an unpopular decision.

Could it be that even our old pal Jay $ekulow is coming around on this issue? From another Arizona Republic article:

Quote:

Even supporters of the monuments, such as Jay Sekulow of the American Center for Law and Justice in Washington, D.C., acknowledge that they are fighting a losing battle.

He said on the center's Web site that the only victories have been won in Kentucky, where a court determined that the commandments could not be posted but could be included in a school curriculum. In several other cases, the commandments are part of a secular display on the historical roots of American law.

And here's the monument in all its glory:

Feather · 07-23-2003, 11:43 AM

But the Commandments are the basis for all our secular law. Even the gigantic bold print "I AM" and "LORD" on the monument. Completely secular interest there. Right?

pariah · 07-23-2003, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feather
But the Commandments are the basis for all our secular law. Even the gigantic bold print "I AM" and "LORD" on the monument. Completely secular interest there. Right?

Youre preaching to the choir

Division By Zero · 07-23-2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Feather
But the Commandments are the basis for all our secular law. Even the gigantic bold print "I AM" and "LORD" on the monument. Completely secular interest there. Right?

Right! Whenever I spot my neighbors mowing their lawn on the Sabbath Day, I report them to the proper authorities posthaste (meaning the following day, of course). We can't have US citizens disrespecting the Sabbath - that's what those "communists" do!

Majestyk · 07-23-2003, 11:05 PM

Setting aside the claim that our laws can be traced thru rather secular historical lineages to pre-monotheistic Mediterranean cultures if, this is the King James version of the Ten Commandments, wouldn't it seem a tad counter intuitive for, a government forbad to pass law respecting the establishment of religion, to display a document, which is a direct result of the merger of religion and state?

xorbie · 07-24-2003, 02:03 AM

Not that this applies here.... but what about the idea of religious art being put in public places. Like maybe an interesting picture of Jesus or something, I dunno. What about something more abstract?

Shake · 07-24-2003, 07:59 AM

Is she related to Judge Moore in Alabama?

Seriously, Stephen, you beat me to it! I was going to say something about how AZ taxpayers should be upset that she's wasting their money on something that could have been quickly and easily settled. When the courts rule against her (as I hope they do), she'll look really bad, and AZ residents should demand an inquiry into her poor management of their taxpayer dollars.

Worldtraveller · 08-06-2003, 07:31 AM

*bump*

Anyone heard of any more recent developments in this? I can't find any news, and I never even got a "Thank you for taking an interest..." email reply to my letter.

Cheers,
Lane

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07-23-2003, 05:23 AM	#2
Worldtraveller Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,834	I don't think it will help, But I wrote the governor a letter saying how dissappointed I was in her actions, especially in light of the voluntary removal of a similar display in the Grand Canyon national park just a few weeks ago. At least SOMEONE in Az is displaying some sense. Cheers, Lane

07-23-2003, 11:43 AM	#4
Feather Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,827	But the Commandments are the basis for all our secular law. Even the gigantic bold print "I AM" and "LORD" on the monument. Completely secular interest there. Right?

07-23-2003, 11:05 PM	#7
Majestyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 2,846	Setting aside the claim that our laws can be traced thru rather secular historical lineages to pre-monotheistic Mediterranean cultures if, this is the King James version of the Ten Commandments, wouldn't it seem a tad counter intuitive for, a government forbad to pass law respecting the establishment of religion, to display a document, which is a direct result of the merger of religion and state?

07-24-2003, 02:03 AM	#8
xorbie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Champaign, IL or Boston, MA Posts: 6,360	Not that this applies here.... but what about the idea of religious art being put in public places. Like maybe an interesting picture of Jesus or something, I dunno. What about something more abstract?

07-24-2003, 07:59 AM	#9
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Is she related to Judge Moore in Alabama? Seriously, Stephen, you beat me to it! I was going to say something about how AZ taxpayers should be upset that she's wasting their money on something that could have been quickly and easily settled. When the courts rule against her (as I hope they do), she'll look really bad, and AZ residents should demand an inquiry into her poor management of their taxpayer dollars.

08-06-2003, 07:31 AM	#10
Worldtraveller Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,834	bump Anyone heard of any more recent developments in this? I can't find any news, and I never even got a "Thank you for taking an interest..." email reply to my letter. Cheers, Lane

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