rainbow walking

Given the many instances of bloodshed over this creatures jealousies in both the OT and the NT, given the greatest symbol of salvation is depicted by a man hanging from a cross, given that this god created his own arch enemy satan, given the current sordid condition of religions around the world and the conflicts they inspire...I am wondering why anyone can still claim this mystical entity is omnibenevolent with a strait face.

rainbow walking

O'kay, let me crystalize this into a much more concise rendering.

If the world's countries and peoples could manage a century of peace from all the religious and political strife would the Abrahamic god, (as depicted in the three basic religions) proliferate or deteriorate? Would the churches, synogogues and temples grow in popularity or shrivel?

Amos

That will depend on the position we are in the wave that partly determines the rise and fall of our civilization. At this moment in time I think it would decline rapidly because we just left the wake that was caused by the renaissance period.

diana

...and an interesting point.

I think it's quite clear that the Xn god declines in popularity in times of peace, and therefore would appear to need conflict to thrive.

I'm sure Xns would explain this phenomenon with human compacency, and how we just think we don't need God until times are rough.

I, however, think you're more on the money. Xnty--belief in gods, even--seems to require conflict to grow and spread. I've been noting this phenomenon since Bush was elected--then all heaven broke loose on 9/11.

d

rainbow walking

Hi Amos,
You say: That will depend on the position we are in the wave that partly determines the rise and fall of our civilization. At this moment in time I think it would decline rapidly because we just left the wake that was caused by the renaissance period.

So am I to take this to mean that the motion of the oceon determines the flock's devotion?

O'taay....

rainbow walking

Hi Diana,
I, too, have noticed the sudden influx of religiosity when times turn troublesome. I wonder what consolation people derive from this? It seems to all be fear-based, from the threats of hell-fire and damnation to tribulation and all points in between. But then there's the promise of rapture...

diana

Yes. In times of tribulation (you know that's a word only a preacher or ex-preacher would use ), I think people are far more emotional.

I remember briefly studying something about this phenomenon in psychology: when you're physically ill, even, your body's defenses tend to be concentrated on the invading virus, and you have far less patience (and emotional defense) for anything else. By the same token, physical danger/fear/stress makes people far more emotionally vulnerable, and therefore fertile ground for the seeds of religion.

Or maybe people need to believe in something. When their belief in their government, their insulating isolation from the bad things of the world, and their own safety is taken away, they go looking for something they can believe in au lieu de those things--and voila!...they "find God."

d

rainbow walking

And...the threat of hell. IMV they just trade in one set of fears for another.

Jobar

I think- more precisely, I hope- that the relationship rainbow points out is slowly being overwhelmed by the increase in our understanding of the world, and our realization that the god-paradigm is not an accurate model for reality, and is a poor way to deal with our lives.

We are a young and growing race; I have no idea if we will be wise enough to overcome our built-in aggressiveness and acquisitiveness before we kill each other off, or poison our environment. But if we are to survive as a race, I am certain that we have to leave behind the theistic fallacy, and the conflicts both internal and external that it causes.

My hope has some solid ground- consider the slowly increasing numbers of freethinkers over the years. This, despite the 'wars and rumors of wars' which have always been with us. I think we have some reason to hope that the more atheists we have in foxholes, the fewer foxholes there will be.

I sometimes worry that atheism and freethought are by nature nonaggressive, though...

rainbow walking

I sometimes worry that atheism and freethought are by nature nonaggressive, though...


I wouldn't worry too much about that, Jobar, they are very aggressively defended idealistically, and that is, ultimately, where all action is determined.