Don't know much about it but it looks very interesting - I think we could all learn something from it.

Tantra

Chas

I'm primarily interested in the supposed multiple orgasm teachings of Tantra.

Well, there is plenty on there about that.

I've been reading the stuff for weeks - if nothing else, it gives good advice on sexual technique. I'm not sure about the spiritual aspect - but it feels good!

Maybe others look more spiritually at it, though.

Chas

Bill

OK, how about a SERIOUS question on this subject: what, exactly, is the difference between the Tantric strain of Buddhism and the Tantric strain of Hinduism, and both of those vis-a-vis the "mainstream" version of their respective "base" religions?

I must admit to being quite confused (along the lines of "you can't tell the players without a program!").

== Bill

ohwilleke

According to the New York Times Almanac (2000):

Re: Hindu Tantrism

"Among the more prominent modes of belief are yoga and tantrism, both of which evolved in both Hinduism and Buddhism, and bhakti. Tantrism emphasized meditation and ritual involving mystical diagrams (mandalas) and chants (mantras) as means to enlightenment. Yoga emphasizes an eightfold path to enlightenment through physical and mental traninig. Bhakti focuses on the primacy of love for a deity. . . . The Muslim ascendancy [me: in the 10th century] was coupled with the rise of bhakti, a devotional hHinuism that stresses love for the deity, and adoption of vernacular languages for worship rather than Sanskrit."

If I had to guess, I would imagine that the Hare Krishna movement, with its great use of mantra, is a Tantric Hindu movement.

Re: Buddhist Tantrism

"Tantric Buddhism (Vajrayana) most common in Tibet and Mongolia, attempts to identify the initiate with a visualized deity. The TRantric canon includes esoteric texts, and mediation engages both the mind and the sense with the use of mantras (chants), mudras (hand gestures) and mandalas (visible icons of the uinverse). The spiritual and temporal leader of Tibetan Buddhists is Dalai Lama. . . . The 7th century saw the rise of Zen Buddhism in China and Japan and Trantric Buddhism in Tibet. . . . Buddhism lost its influence in India in the 8th century, partially through absorpotion of its ideas into Hinudism and partially because of the rise of Islam. . . . Mahayana Buddhists [me: a religion family including Zen] account for 56% (168 million) of all Buddhists, mostly in Japan, Korea and China, Theravada Buddhists [me: i.e. original, orthodox Buddhism] accounts for 38 percent (114 million), in Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka. Lamaist Buddhists [me: Tantric or Tibetan] accont for the remaining 6 percent (18 million) in Tibet and Mongolia. Buddhist practice is Tibet is under threat from the Chinese goverment."

Tantric Buddhism has been featured in such recent movies as "Seven Years in Tibet", "Little Buddha" and "The Cup". The Buddhism Bill encounted in Vietnam, however, would have been Theravada Buddhism.

I would describe Tantrism as the "high church" Buddhist and Hindus, like high church Christians who use incense, kneeling, plainsong, Latin, stained glass, and other elaborations v. low church Christians who can disdain a sung liturgy, elaborate rituals or adorned churches.

[This message has been edited by ohwilleke (edited April 12, 2001).]

Originally posted by ohwilleke:
I wouldn't. In the first place, Hare Krishna emphasizes Krishna, an avatar of Vishnu, whereas the Tantriks are Shivaites.

Also, it is my impression that the Tantriks are considered not quite respectable by orthodox Hindus, and are feared by some as evil sorcerors. Some sects of Tantra, in turn, have initiation rituals that involve the violation of orthodox Hindu taboos, such as eating meat and having sex with someone outside one's caste.

Some books that have been recommended to me by people knowledgeable on the subject (I'll admit I haven't read them myself yet) include:

• Aghora, at the Left Hand of God by Robert Svoboda
• Secrets of Western Tantra by Dr. Christopher S. Hyatt
• The Way of Action by Francis King
• Tantrism, its Secrets and Practices by Benjamin Walker

A lot of Western writings on Tantra tend to reduce it to just sexual practices. In fact, those sexual practices are only one relatively minor part of Tantra.

Any comments from hinduwoman?


[This message has been edited by Kate Long (edited April 12, 2001).]

Toto

The Hare Krishnas are classified as practicing bhakti yoga because their practice is to praise Krishna. They are not related to Tantra.

I saw a documentary about Modern Tantra just yesterday.

Although Tantra itself is about 2000 years old, Modern Tantra seems to try and follow what they can find of the ancient texts and sculpures.

The main emphasis seemed to be fulfillment through eroticism. I was a bit surprised at how "un-pornographic" it all is.

It seemed more like "erotic meditation" than anything else.

They believe that the power released when orgasm is reached can be directed up the body toward the head. When it reaches the head, it produces an "orgasmic wave", which can be trasmitted to your partner (or partners). They also believe that semen is life itself and that men should limit there ejaculations in order not to waste it.

It did not apear to be a "religion" in the same way as Christianity or Islam, in that the main emphasis was on discovering youself, and your own potential. Practitioners claim that, as well as improving their sex lives, it improves their general relationships with other people and the environment around them.

There was no mention of any particular 'god-worship' in the documentary, so I would be interested to know if they have any gods.

Chas

[This message has been edited by Chas2 (edited April 13, 2001).]

Originally posted by Chas2:
When you speak of "modern Tantra," do you mean "Tantra" as practiced by Westerners, or do you mean old-time Tantrik sects in today's world? I'm guessing you mean the former. As I understand it, traditional Tantra involves a LOT more than just the sexual practices emphasized by modern Westerners.

Yes,

The documentary was mainly about Tantra as practices by Westerners, although they did have an interveiw with a Chinese practitioner living in Sweden, who seemed to take a more religious stance on it.

It was mainly centred around a Tantra initiation ceremony held in Hawaii, but was an Australian documentary and covered a little about the history of it.

I'll have to look at it again to get more of a handle on what they were actually trying to pervey, as I recorded it.

Chas