pudgyfarmer

Can an atheist demonstrate to me that God does not exist? What proof is there that there is no God? And if there is no God then why do things really matter like morals and ethics?

Psycho Economist

Your side makes the positive claim of a deity's existence. Assuming you can bring one of us to the table, and you and your opponent can define what this "God" is whose existence you're debating is... you must show the evidence to substantiate his existence.

First, why do they matter if your deity does exist? After all, if moral standards are truly objective, they exist regardless of your deity. If your deity's whims are the source of morality, than at the very best moral judgments are subjective (since they would then be based on that deity's values or opinions) and at the least arbitrary.

That said, I think you and I both realize that harmonious moral values (to the extent to which they do exist) enable us to establish a framework in which we can live better than if we chose to be antisocial. Why is that not satisfactory?

Eudaimonist

The burden of demonstation is with you to show that God does exist, just as if you had claimed that leprechauns exist. Proceed.

Vienna

As PE and Eudaimonist have indicated, it's a burden of proof thing.

I can't prove to you that God doesn't exist. But, to me, all the proofs that purport to show that God does exist are neither satisfactory nor convincing.

So why not start by telling us why you believe in God and we can go from there.

enrious

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism...ml#ignorantiam

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism....html#shifting

Violent Messiah

Question is what evidence would atheists like to see to believe in God? Would showing up in CNN and perform miracles be enough? Would the elimination of evil be enough? Would life be enough?

One leads to wonder...

Jinto

How about terraforming the moon? Not only would this be an impressive demonstration of power, but it also serves the very practical purpose of creating some breathing room for Earthlings who are currently overpopulating this planet.

Speechless

That's kind of hard to answer, what kind of god are we talking about? If it's Jesus were talking about, actually living up to his benevolent rep, and answering some prayers would be a good start. Communication is important in verifying your existence to other people, after all.

And if were taking about the Cthulhu kind of god, I suppose devouring all life on earth would pretty convincing.

Vienna

Originally posted by Violent Messiah
Question is what evidence would atheists like to see to believe in God? Would showing up in CNN and perform miracles be enough?

Yeah, that would do it. As long as it was clear that God was the entity performing the miracles.

Would the elimination of evil be enough?

That would definitely do it. As long as it was clear that God was the cause of the elimination.

Would life be enough?

As long as it was clear that God created that life.

You see, each of those things still requires evidence that God was the cause.

But, instead of asking me what evidence I would like to see, why not provide some that has convinced you, and I will do my best to objectively analyze it.

Kimpatsu

Pudgy Farmer strikes me as being a troll, but to answer the question seriously:
There is no evidence that god (of any flavour) exists. The existence of the universe, and of life, can be explained by purely rational means. To then say "god did it" is to add an extra, unnecessary, layer of complexity, which violates the principle of Occam's razor. It also begs the question, "who created god?" Further, an omnipotent god is inherently self-contradictory. (Can god create a rock too heavy for himself to lift?) So, to recap: no evidence, plenty of circumstantial counter-evidence, and no need for any god (redundancy). Ergo, I feel confident in asserting that god (of any flavour) does not exist.