Horizon22

I've been reassessing my beliefs (and non-beliefs) about God and I can honestly say that I do NOT think it is possible to "talk to God" (including God "listening" and giving you "advice") for several reasons, e.g.
1) God is not tangible -- you cannot see, hear, smell, touch or tastes God.
2) Saying you "talk and hear" God implies that you are assigning human characteristics to God (personifying him if you will) thereby diminishing the omnipotence factor
3) If God can "talk" to you and you can "hear" him, why are there so many people out there doing bad/evil things? Why hasn't God intervened in their thoughts to try and get them to see "the error of their ways?
4) what's wrong with believing that it's your own mind that's supplying you with your inspiration? And that's it's your own conscience that you're "hearing" in your head?

critical thinking made ez

(Allowing for the existence of God in this Framework)
If one believes God is omnipresent, then you can.

I see 2 problems to begin with.

1.
If God does talk to people, how can they trust the vehicle he uses to communicate. The person down the street, your minister, your mother, your brain, your cat. There must be some fallible vehicle that transmits the message, and this transmitter is open to defect being of earth. Meaning you can't trust the message if he did send one.

2.
The second problem is the interpretation of what was being communicated. Again we have a fallible human mind that must attempt to understand the message despite the fact that man can't even agree what God's other messages in the Bible truly mean after thousands of years of study by the brightest minds in the world.

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: critical thinking made ez ]</p>

Rafe

This proves nothing. I can neither see, hear, smell, touch, or taste you, but that does not mean that I could'nt ever talk to you (or that you don't exist), or that you couldn't ever listen to me. Matter of fact, one of the ways in which God talks to you is through his written Word, kinda like we are communicating through our written word.

Talking and hearing are not only human characteristics. Many creatures communicate with each other. God created Man in His image, whole and complete, with the ability to communicate with him and others. I wouldn't call the ability to communicate a human characteristic, rather a characteristic of God. And the ability to communicate in no way diminishes the truth of the omnipotence of God.

I can answer that in 2 words...Free Will. We were created with the ability to accept or reject God. We weren't created as mindless automatons. Because we live in a world of cause and effect, and when people give into evil, bad things can happen, even to good people.

emotional

</strong>

First of all, the Bible isn't the Word of God (it is disqualified because it contradicts natural fact; see <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/genesis1.html" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/presuppositional.html" target="_blank">here</a>). Secondly, this kind of communication is unidirectional, like that of a king to his subjects (they can't normally talk back to him, except for a chosen few). Personal relations is bidirectional: a conversation. The God of a petrified written word is not personal. We do not have a personal relationship with God through the Bible any more than we have a personal relationship with Mozart through his music.

</strong>

If you're talking about the God of theistic religion, then it's the other way round.

</strong>

A characteristic, yet he hasn't been doing it for over 2000 years...

</strong>

You do not know God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, just, kind, merciful etc any more than you know God is fat and ugly.

</strong>

I agree with our having Free Will - personal free will. However, this personal free will is unconstrained except by physical limitations. In fact, it is this fact of unconstrained personal free will that is the cause of the absolute lack of metaphysical free will. That is, because everything is cause and effect - in fact, only direct cause and effect, see <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/allgod.html" target="_blank">here</a> - there is no possibility of any external linkage of events, that is, no top-down control. Blind flow, and not purposive decree, is what rules all destinies. You can have either personal free will or the ability to be guarded by God; you cannot have both.

Demiurge

But how do you know it really is God's words, and not just the words of other men? Because it says it is?

Perhaps you believe it because your parents or some preacher told you it was. Then, you're taking it on their authority that the Bible is true.

But how do they know? Because someone else told them.

What if I write a book, and the first two lines are:

1. Everything in this book is true.
2. It was dictated to me by God.

Does that make it true?

What if my book makes claims about history, some of which are true, but some of which just don't seem to make sense, or even seem silly and archaic.

Wouldn't that get you to question it?

emotional

EXACTLY! You've now hit the nail on the head, the rudimentary, presuppositional problem. I've dealt with this interesting issue in the article <a href="http://www.geocities.com/stmetanat/presuppositional.html" target="_blank">The Presuppositional Case for Naturalism</a>.

Optimistic

The following statement is true.
The above statement is false.

The bible is a paradox.

When god made man in his image - why is it that we can lie? why can we be influenced by "Satan" and god can't? Why are we being tortured for another man's mistake? Why did he make our minds inferior to his? why? why? why? why? why?!

I want to be pure love too. I don't want god's power, but I'd like to not be limited by my mind so I don't have to be distraught anymore.

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Optimistic ]</p>

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

False. God is omnipotent, thus any message that he sends WILL be recieved, and in the manner he intended for it to be recieved. Fallible means lack of control over it in entirety-something that an omnipotnet being has.
True-we have a fallible mind. However, it is quite possible for an all-powerful being to give a clear, concise message. Shit, I can do that. My dog can do that. Not hard. Of course, being, well, God, and probably a bit of a sadist, he will not give clear messages. Interpreting his riddles is half the fun.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

Assume God. God is supernatural. God therefor need not the things that we think we need to communicate.
Not really, in this case. To deny that an omnipotent being can talk or hear is to refute his omnipotence. Damn straight he can hear (assuming omnipotence)
Autonomy. You may argue that God has a moral obligation to step in and persuade others of their wrongdoing, but, really, how can one say no to God?
They sound different to me. Anyhow, God and I don't really chat the hours away. Nor am I inspired by him. Being inspired by god is to say that you really needn't exist.

I still don't understand people who think that God tells them what to do...

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ

A mirror casts a reflection in your image. Yet it is far more limited than you. If I wanted to open a can of worms, I throw in Plato's theory of the forms, but it is pretty, well, absurd.

Imipramine works wonders.