Freethought & Rationalism Archive

emotional · 03-26-2003, 03:23 AM

... owing to the outbreak of a new killer disease, which means death is not so far away, I'm afraid I'll have to leave materialism with its insistence on no life after death and go back to believing in the supernatural (with life after death). Back to paganism, then.

(in other words: while I concede the evidence is for naturalism and no life after death, I'm so paralysed by the fear of looming death that I can't afford to be a materialist anymore, no matter what the evidence says. The eye of reason shows me some sights I don't exactly relish seeing, so I'd better shut it. I hope you unbelieving people can tolerate that).

Aquila ka Hecate · 03-26-2003, 03:31 AM

Heathen Dawn, is that you?

emotional · 03-26-2003, 04:07 AM

Yeah. Can't you tell by the fact that "fear of death is overwhelming me"?

emotional · 03-26-2003, 04:12 AM

re Starboy: you talked about medications. They don't help. As soon as I heard about the new killer virus, my whole materialist catechism collapsed like a house of cards.

The idea of being finally dead, of ceasing to be, of not existing, is so frightening that I can't push it out of my mind. The more I try distractions, the more it looms. And when death seems imminent, I can't afford to disbelieve in life after death. No gods is bad enough, but no life after death is the most terrible. It's just too bad to be true.

Aquila ka Hecate · 03-26-2003, 04:25 AM

Right.

I may be way out of line here, but in my opinion what you need is a good, close brush with real death.

Not some clean, clinical nde lying in a hospital bed with medical staff surrounding you and a tunnel bekoning before you-but a urine infested alleway at night, a gun to your head and no one to call out to, nowhere to run.

I've had both, and while the hospital nde was interesting, it was the in-you-face nature of the other encounter which cured me of my lfetime's anxiety problems.

Funny that-once you really have been close to death, and helpless, you lose all fears of it.

Hey!Maybe you should move here to Johannesburg.
We'll show you a really good time.Gaurantee to have you hijacked/mugged/raped/yourchoice within 10 minutes of leaving the airport.

emotional · 03-26-2003, 05:04 AM

Shock therapy?! You are way out of line here.

I hate science. Science has made mankind an unhappy creature. Science is not mankind's saviour - faith is.

Shake · 03-26-2003, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
Shock therapy?! You are way out of line here.

I hate science. Science has made mankind an unhappy creature. Science is not mankind's saviour - faith is.

Science has made me happy! Happy that I didn't have to face polio, smallpox, etc. Happy that my son stands much greater chances of keeping his teeth even longer than I will (and I'm going to do better than my father)! Happy that faraway friends and relatives can be contacted quickly and inexpensively.

No, I don't look forward to death any more than anyone else, but I'm not going to let my fear of it ruin my life either! I don't need Faith to guide me. I have faith that one day I will die, but again, I'm not going to let that paralyze me. I'm sorry that you all can't brush it aside and enjoy yourselves. Really.

Yes, of course we'll tolerate it. We may not agree with you, but you are more than welcome to stay and share your views.

scarmig · 03-26-2003, 05:52 AM

Science is great! Death is great! Faith is empty!

With Death you participate in the Great Cycle! No matter what you do, no matter what anyone thinks, you contribute to the Life Cycle by living *and* dying. Life is meaningless without death.

I face death by checking each day to see if it is okay for me to go. Meaning that if I were to die today (which is always a possiblity), I feel I have done everything I wanted to do up to this day. It may sound like a morbid practice, but it's one that has vastly increased the joy and security of my life.

For example, I walked out this morning, feeling like absolute shit thanks to my allergies. But after I got in the car, I realized I hadn't told my wife I love her. I can't die without telling her that first. So I got out of the car, went back to the bedroom, woke her up and told her. *That* is a joyous, fulfilling action. I also kissed my daughter again on the way out. All that because I *might* die today, highways are dangerous, and I wanted to make sure I was ready for it. It's not an obsession or anything like that. It is as normal and everyday for me as putting on a seatbelt, or picking up prescriptions from the druggist. It is "preventive mainenance" that I do on my life to make sure it I maximize my life experience.

Accepting death is a vital part of living life.

keyser_soze · 03-26-2003, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aquila ka Hecate
Right.

I may be way out of line here, but in my opinion what you need is a good, close brush with real death.

.

Been there several times myself, and it did nothing but push faith further away from credibility!

Eudaimonist · 03-26-2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
The eye of reason shows me some sights I don't exactly relish seeing, so I'd better shut it. I hope you unbelieving people can tolerate that.

We have once before. We will again.

I hope you will one day lose your obsessive fear of death, but do what you must.

03-26-2003, 03:23 AM	#1
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	It was fun being an unbeliever, but... ... owing to the outbreak of a new killer disease, which means death is not so far away, I'm afraid I'll have to leave materialism with its insistence on no life after death and go back to believing in the supernatural (with life after death). Back to paganism, then. (in other words: while I concede the evidence is for naturalism and no life after death, I'm so paralysed by the fear of looming death that I can't afford to be a materialist anymore, no matter what the evidence says. The eye of reason shows me some sights I don't exactly relish seeing, so I'd better shut it. I hope you unbelieving people can tolerate that).

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03-26-2003, 03:31 AM	#2
Aquila ka Hecate Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Luna City Posts: 379	Heathen Dawn, is that you?

03-26-2003, 04:07 AM	#3
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Yeah. Can't you tell by the fact that "fear of death is overwhelming me"?

03-26-2003, 04:12 AM	#4
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	re Starboy: you talked about medications. They don't help. As soon as I heard about the new killer virus, my whole materialist catechism collapsed like a house of cards. The idea of being finally dead, of ceasing to be, of not existing, is so frightening that I can't push it out of my mind. The more I try distractions, the more it looms. And when death seems imminent, I can't afford to disbelieve in life after death. No gods is bad enough, but no life after death is the most terrible. It's just too bad to be true.

03-26-2003, 04:25 AM	#5
Aquila ka Hecate Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Luna City Posts: 379	Right. I may be way out of line here, but in my opinion what you need is a good, close brush with real death. Not some clean, clinical nde lying in a hospital bed with medical staff surrounding you and a tunnel bekoning before you-but a urine infested alleway at night, a gun to your head and no one to call out to, nowhere to run. I've had both, and while the hospital nde was interesting, it was the in-you-face nature of the other encounter which cured me of my lfetime's anxiety problems. Funny that-once you really have been close to death, and helpless, you lose all fears of it. Hey!Maybe you should move here to Johannesburg. We'll show you a really good time.Gaurantee to have you hijacked/mugged/raped/yourchoice within 10 minutes of leaving the airport.

03-26-2003, 05:04 AM	#6
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Shock therapy?! You are way out of line here. I hate science. Science has made mankind an unhappy creature. Science is not mankind's saviour - faith is.

03-26-2003, 05:52 AM	#8
scarmig Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 689	Science is great! Death is great! Faith is empty! With Death you participate in the Great Cycle! No matter what you do, no matter what anyone thinks, you contribute to the Life Cycle by living and dying. Life is meaningless without death. I face death by checking each day to see if it is okay for me to go. Meaning that if I were to die today (which is always a possiblity), I feel I have done everything I wanted to do up to this day. It may sound like a morbid practice, but it's one that has vastly increased the joy and security of my life. For example, I walked out this morning, feeling like absolute shit thanks to my allergies. But after I got in the car, I realized I hadn't told my wife I love her. I can't die without telling her that first. So I got out of the car, went back to the bedroom, woke her up and told her. That is a joyous, fulfilling action. I also kissed my daughter again on the way out. All that because I might die today, highways are dangerous, and I wanted to make sure I was ready for it. It's not an obsession or anything like that. It is as normal and everyday for me as putting on a seatbelt, or picking up prescriptions from the druggist. It is "preventive mainenance" that I do on my life to make sure it I maximize my life experience. Accepting death is a vital part of living life.

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