Freethought & Rationalism Archive

excreationist · 07-11-2003, 09:01 AM

from the I have finally met one!!!! thread:
pz wrote:

Quote:

I'm in Minnesota, a state that I have always considered rather liberal with a good dedication to quality education...and the new state education commissioner is a closet creationist, a pal of Phyllis Schlafly and her Eagle Forum, who has just declared that the new state science standards for public education will not contain any discussion of evolution. Why? Because it is too "controversial".

In other words, the idea of evolution is opposed by a lot of the public and this should be reflected in the schools curriculums.

Well I read an interesting post here:

Quote:

But at least half of Americans polled in a recent survey by the National Science Foundation did not know that Earth orbits the Sun, [first part is wrong] and that it takes a year to do so. Does this mean we should teach that Earth is the center of the universe? Of course not. It merely means that we are not doing a very good job informing the public about physics. Science is not a democratic process. It does not proceed by majority rule and it does not accept notions that have already been disproven by experiment.

I thought that was a good argument against people who want schools to avoid teaching evolution or to teach that it is a very questionable theory.

Here is the 2001 National Science Foundation survey:
http://www.nsf.gov/sbe/srs/seind02/a...c7/at07-10.pdf

BTW here are some creationist type statistics from it:

H = The universe began with a huge explosion. (True)
All adults: 33%
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 59%
High level of science/maths education: 50%
Attentive to science/technology: 50%

I = The continents on which we live have been moving their location for millions of years and will continue to move in the future. (True) [so earth is old]
All adults: 79%
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 90%
High level of science/maths education: 91%
Attentive to science/technology: 90%

J = Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals. (True)
All adults: 53%
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 81%
High level of science/maths education: 69%
Attentive to science/technology: 72%

L = The earliest humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs. (False)
All adults: 48%
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 67%
High level of science/maths education: 62%
Attentive to science/technology: 61%

Earth/Sun questions:

O = Does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth? (Earth around the Sun)
All adults: 72% (less than highschool - 52%)
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 92%
High level of science/maths education: 94%
Attentive to science/technology: 83%

P = How long does it take for the Earth to go around the Sun: one day, one month, or one year? (One year)
All adults: 54% (less than highschool - 31%)
(College?)Graduates/professionals: 76%
High level of science/maths education: 83%
Attentive to science/technology: 66%

pz · 07-11-2003, 09:06 AM

Those are all very controversial ideas. It would be very, very bad if the educational system let revolutionary nonsense like that creep into student's heads.

I have an idea that would save school districts lots of money, and make sure that students learn only what is important: fire all the teachers and fasten a big television to the front of the classroom, that is locked in to Fox News.

Duvenoy · 07-11-2003, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pz
Those are all very controversial ideas. It would be very, very bad if the educational system let revolutionary nonsense like that creep into student's heads.

I have an idea that would save school districts lots of money, and make sure that students learn only what is important: fire all the teachers and fasten a big television to the front of the classroom, that is locked in to Fox News.

(Duvenoy rushs to the bathroom so as not to snap his lunch on the carpet.)

doov

Rhaedas · 07-11-2003, 09:15 AM

I was unaware that science wasn't based on data, observation, and the scientific method, but on popularity and democratic votes. :banghead:

All the more reason why we need good teachers; to ensure the next generation isn't as ignorant, and not only knows the facts, but knows how to figure out what's valid, ie teaching critical thinking, not just memorization.

I'd be willing to bet the percentage of correct answers would plummet if the adults not only had to give the right answer, but explain how we know it's correct.

Albion · 07-11-2003, 01:25 PM

Oh good, so science that's controversial for nonscientific reasons is to be banned in schools now? What a good thing we live in such a free country, or goodness knows what might be happening.

RufusAtticus · 07-11-2003, 01:31 PM

The accuracy of science must be determined by emotion, philosophy, politics, and religion.

RBH · 07-12-2003, 05:31 AM

RufusAtticus wrote

Quote:

The accuracy of science must be determined by emotion, philosophy, politics, and religion.

Don't forget personal incredulity, as in "How can you possibly believe that <fill in the blank>?"

RBH

Valentine Pontifex · 07-12-2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

H = The universe began with a huge explosion. (True)

The National Science Foundation has asked this every two years for who knows how long. And the correct answer is really False. The Big Bang was not an explosion.

RufusAtticus · 07-12-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valentine Pontifex
The National Science Foundation has asked this every two years for who knows how long. And the correct answer is really False. The Big Bang was not an explosion.

Correct, the Big Bang was an expansion not an explosion.

Roland98 · 07-12-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valentine Pontifex
The National Science Foundation has asked this every two years for who knows how long. And the correct answer is really False. The Big Bang was not an explosion.

Right--but that's one of those "did humans evolve from monkeys" type of question. People that are familiar with the very basics of evolution but haven't studied it in detail are bound to say "yes;" even though it would be more correct to replace "monkeys" with "apes." If the general populace sees the big bang as an explosion, I'd much rather see them say that than have them simply answer "God did it."

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07-11-2003, 09:06 AM	#2
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	Those are all very controversial ideas. It would be very, very bad if the educational system let revolutionary nonsense like that creep into student's heads. I have an idea that would save school districts lots of money, and make sure that students learn only what is important: fire all the teachers and fasten a big television to the front of the classroom, that is locked in to Fox News.

07-11-2003, 09:15 AM	#4
Rhaedas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,440	I was unaware that science wasn't based on data, observation, and the scientific method, but on popularity and democratic votes. :banghead: All the more reason why we need good teachers; to ensure the next generation isn't as ignorant, and not only knows the facts, but knows how to figure out what's valid, ie teaching critical thinking, not just memorization. I'd be willing to bet the percentage of correct answers would plummet if the adults not only had to give the right answer, but explain how we know it's correct.

07-11-2003, 01:25 PM	#5
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Oh good, so science that's controversial for nonscientific reasons is to be banned in schools now? What a good thing we live in such a free country, or goodness knows what might be happening.

07-11-2003, 01:31 PM	#6
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The accuracy of science must be determined by emotion, philosophy, politics, and religion.

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