Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roland98 · 06-20-2003, 12:02 PM

Well, I'll add my $.02

I became pregnant rather unexpectedly during my 1st year of grad school. Rather than quit or delay (both of which would have meant losing my stipend), I worked up until the last minute and took 4 weeks maternity leave after the baby was born. We didn't take her to a huge day care, but rather to an woman who'd been taking care of kids in her home for about 15 years (she was also certified as a provider in our state--which was an important requirement for me). Bonding issues? None to speak of. Daughter is 3 1/2 now and I can't think of a time when there was no feeling of "attachment," or anything like that. Had our son a bit over a year ago and did pretty much the same thing. I did stay home with both of them for about 2 months while I was writing my dissertation--but other than that, they've been with that same sitter. The only thing it did cause some problems with was nursing the older one--it took me awhile to really get the hang of the pump, but it was much smoother with the second child.

I wish I could have stayed home longer with each, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't affected them--they're both healthy, happy kids. I think the key is to find a good provider--so if your friend is incompetent, you might want to call around in your area or do some web surfing if you feel inclined to help her out.

Edited to add--the husband situation, ugh. My husband is an amazing dad, so I never had to worry about that--and he would have loved to stay home if we didn't both have to work. She really needs to make him get off his lazy ass and do something.

yguy · 06-20-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
Stranger does not equate to incompetant however.

What are we talking about, a software engineer?

Sorry, brighid, competence is not nearly enough.

Quote:

Well that is just a bunch of hyperbole. Common and natural are not equitable. Child abuse is not healthy, even if it is common or even normal for some dysfunctional family. Separation anxiety is normal for every child and healthy displays of it demonstrate a positive, strong bond between child and parent.

What is the benefit of demonstrating such a bond? Seems a little like cutting the kid's arm off to make him appreciate the fact that he has an arm, then reattaching it.

Quote:

That is a rather pessimistic view to take. I have had the complete opposite experience in my own life and with my son's day care experience. A good day care provider creates an environment different from what you speak. I am sorry you have had such negative experiences in your life. Furthermore, parents and care providers that emphasize personal responsibility (even with children as young as 2) would have taught you that you are the only one responsible for your actions even if another child is misbehaving.

How convenient for the mom who leaves the child to fend for itself amidst a horde of other disfunctional brats to think that an average two year old can be responsible for anything. The idea is utterly insane.

Quote:

As an adult you should know this. Another child, or human being isn't responsible for making the worst of you come out. You are the only one responsible.

Technically that's correct, but any parent who lets their child spend several hours a day with dozens of children who, let's get real, don't have the foggiest idea what responsibility is unless an authority figure happens to be present, is grossly irresponsible themselves.

Quote:

A day care provider is not a surrogate mother, although one can be. I would think in the cases of abusive or neglectful parent this provider could become the positive, loving, safe influence a child needs to grow up in a healthy adult.

It would be if the kid didn't have to go home with the parent every night. Sorry, you just can't have it both ways.

Quote:

Given the many regulations a state approved facility must have often times children are safer in the care of these individuals then they are at home.

Well isn't THAT reassuring. Brave New World, here we come. Why the hell don't mothers just leave the kid at the hospital/daycare center and visit once a month?

Quote:

Also given that children are far more likely to be abused by a family member, or trusted friend it seems that strangers aren't all that bad.

That is completely beside the point. Young children need the maximum sense of security they can possibly have. That sure as hell doesn't come from being tossed around like a hot potato. There is no substitute for a mom who loves that kid too much to let it out of her sight for a minute - and we should encourage that kind of mom by lowering taxes so that they can stay home with the kid, rather than creating daycare programs that cater mainly to moms who see the kid as something to put up with.

Quote:

This doesn't mean he won't ever have any bad experiences with strangers, but to instill anything more then a skeptical fear of strangers seems counterproductive.

Who suggested anything like that?

Jennie · 06-20-2003, 09:38 PM

One of my sisters and her husband are daycare providers at a large chain of daycare centers. There are strict limits on the number of children each provider can care for, they are *not* herded together by the dozens. The children are carefully guided to appropriate behavior and taught how to interact socially, as their development allows. All the workers there, I have met them, love kids and would not allow the children to mistreat each other. I know my sister and husband well, and they are excellent with children of all types. The children they work with are perfectly normal healthy kids, in no way dysfunctional. You haven't a clue what you are talking about, yguy.

Myself, I use a daycare provider once a week, she works out of her home and is licensed. My kids get a playtime with other children that they get to know, including one cousin and have a grand time. My son had terrible separation anxiety, and Karen, my provider, worked with me to gradually increase the time he could spend there. We started with half an hour and increased to six hours finally. My daughter had her brother there, and in four sessions went from crying when I left to running eagerly to see her friends and play with them.

yguy · 06-20-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie
One of my sisters and her husband are daycare providers at a large chain of daycare centers. There are strict limits on the number of children each provider can care for, they are *not* herded together by the dozens.

If this is a private sector deal that would make sense. What I'm telling you about the government-run center I was in is accurate.

Viti · 06-21-2003, 12:03 AM

For what daycare costs, it seems to me she could hire a Nanny, maybe a retiree or recent graduate. Several of my friends were "au paires" between high school and college, and my sister in law was one for two years as her regular job. That way the kid could be at home with Daddy, but someone more comfortable with babies would be around to help him.

I have to say though, why would your friend choose to have a child with a man who won't care for a cat and doesn't work? Was it a planned pregnancy?

Queen of Swords · 06-21-2003, 12:24 AM

No, it wasn't a planned pregnancy. My friend even felt guilty that she didn't develop some instant maternal bond with the embryo. I wouldn't wish what she went through on anyone, especially since her boss's reply, upon hearing, "I'm pregnant" was, "How much time will you have to take off from work?"

Considering her very demanding job and her lack of support at home (or anywhere else), a trained professional seems to be the best choice, and I haven't seen any evidence - on this thread at least - that day care causes problems with children's attachment with/love for their parents. The suggestion of a nanny also sounds like it might work.

Viti · 06-21-2003, 10:17 AM

I apologize QoS, that was none of my busines...just sort of hard for me to hear about it when my hubby would love to be a father and full time caretaker, but we can't have kids.

Anyway, the nanny idea may be "the best of both worlds" so to speak

Quote:

I wouldn't wish what she went through on anyone, especially since her boss's reply, upon hearing, "I'm pregnant" was, "How much time will you have to take off from work?"

Sigh....

Jennie · 06-21-2003, 08:52 PM

Heh, with that amount of tact her boss will never make it past middle management.

fatherphil · 06-23-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
So what's the cut-off age you suggest, and what's your rationale for suggesting it?

try to tough it out till kindegarden cause they are only that age for such a short time and whatever financial benefit could be gained by working those 4 or five years can never buy it back.

brighid · 06-24-2003, 05:07 AM

QoS,

The nanny idea is definately a good alternative and checking out the au paire program might be worth while as well. Any local parenting magazine would have some good services listed for both. The only thing I would recommend to your friend is to spend the money on a criminal background check if she chooses to use a nanny in her home (even if she gets her through an agency.) You can get most of that information through on-line services these days.

Brighid

06-20-2003, 12:02 PM	#21
Roland98 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Gilead Posts: 11,186	Re: Babies in day care Well, I'll add my $.02 I became pregnant rather unexpectedly during my 1st year of grad school. Rather than quit or delay (both of which would have meant losing my stipend), I worked up until the last minute and took 4 weeks maternity leave after the baby was born. We didn't take her to a huge day care, but rather to an woman who'd been taking care of kids in her home for about 15 years (she was also certified as a provider in our state--which was an important requirement for me). Bonding issues? None to speak of. Daughter is 3 1/2 now and I can't think of a time when there was no feeling of "attachment," or anything like that. Had our son a bit over a year ago and did pretty much the same thing. I did stay home with both of them for about 2 months while I was writing my dissertation--but other than that, they've been with that same sitter. The only thing it did cause some problems with was nursing the older one--it took me awhile to really get the hang of the pump, but it was much smoother with the second child. I wish I could have stayed home longer with each, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't affected them--they're both healthy, happy kids. I think the key is to find a good provider--so if your friend is incompetent, you might want to call around in your area or do some web surfing if you feel inclined to help her out. Edited to add--the husband situation, ugh. My husband is an amazing dad, so I never had to worry about that--and he would have loved to stay home if we didn't both have to work. She really needs to make him get off his lazy ass and do something.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-20-2003, 09:38 PM	#23
Jennie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,593	One of my sisters and her husband are daycare providers at a large chain of daycare centers. There are strict limits on the number of children each provider can care for, they are not herded together by the dozens. The children are carefully guided to appropriate behavior and taught how to interact socially, as their development allows. All the workers there, I have met them, love kids and would not allow the children to mistreat each other. I know my sister and husband well, and they are excellent with children of all types. The children they work with are perfectly normal healthy kids, in no way dysfunctional. You haven't a clue what you are talking about, yguy. Myself, I use a daycare provider once a week, she works out of her home and is licensed. My kids get a playtime with other children that they get to know, including one cousin and have a grand time. My son had terrible separation anxiety, and Karen, my provider, worked with me to gradually increase the time he could spend there. We started with half an hour and increased to six hours finally. My daughter had her brother there, and in four sessions went from crying when I left to running eagerly to see her friends and play with them.

06-21-2003, 12:03 AM	#25
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	For what daycare costs, it seems to me she could hire a Nanny, maybe a retiree or recent graduate. Several of my friends were "au paires" between high school and college, and my sister in law was one for two years as her regular job. That way the kid could be at home with Daddy, but someone more comfortable with babies would be around to help him. I have to say though, why would your friend choose to have a child with a man who won't care for a cat and doesn't work? Was it a planned pregnancy?

06-21-2003, 12:24 AM	#26
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	No, it wasn't a planned pregnancy. My friend even felt guilty that she didn't develop some instant maternal bond with the embryo. I wouldn't wish what she went through on anyone, especially since her boss's reply, upon hearing, "I'm pregnant" was, "How much time will you have to take off from work?" Considering her very demanding job and her lack of support at home (or anywhere else), a trained professional seems to be the best choice, and I haven't seen any evidence - on this thread at least - that day care causes problems with children's attachment with/love for their parents. The suggestion of a nanny also sounds like it might work.

06-21-2003, 08:52 PM	#28
Jennie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 3,593	Heh, with that amount of tact her boss will never make it past middle management.

06-24-2003, 05:07 AM	#30
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	QoS, The nanny idea is definately a good alternative and checking out the au paire program might be worth while as well. Any local parenting magazine would have some good services listed for both. The only thing I would recommend to your friend is to spend the money on a criminal background check if she chooses to use a nanny in her home (even if she gets her through an agency.) You can get most of that information through on-line services these days. Brighid

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.