Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pseudobug · 02-01-2002, 08:09 AM

so Johnny gets on the web, does a search and turns up this link:<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/index.htm" target="_blank">Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia</a>

Looking at the site, Johnny thinks he has found a treasure trove of "useful", valid information. After all, it is on the internet, isn't it? And it does say "Encyclopedia" doesn't it? So it's gotta be correct, doesn't it?

To make matters worse, Johnny's teacher likes Johnny's report and rewards him with a good grade. Mom and Dad are so proud when they learn how well little Johnny did on his "research" report.

An even more chilling result is that Johnny, at a formative age, becomes convinced that scientists are chronic liars, hucksters and magicians. Johnny's mind is forever more convinced that science is a bunch of bullshit lies like he learned from his report.

Then little Johnny grows up to be a big Johnny and momma-Johnny squirts out baby Johnnies that they raise to be just as ignorant.

I am absolutely convinced, after just a few short weeks of being interested in this debate, that the above scenario or one very similar occurs at a high rate.

Man, it absolutely turns my stomach when I see tripe like this on the web.

The more I read some of this outlandish horse caca, the more steamed I get.

When will this madness end?

BLoggins02 · 02-01-2002, 08:16 AM

Quote:

1 - Star clusters. One type of galaxy in outer space is the star cluster. There are many of them; and, within each one, are billions of stars. Some of these clusters are moving so rapidly, that it would be impossible for them to remain together if the universe were very old.—p. 11.

Huh?

Quote:

3 - High-energy stars. Four types of stars radiate energy too rapidly to have existed longer than 50,000 to 300,000 years.—pp. 11-12.

First of all, this obviously isn't even true. But even if it were true, how does this somehow deny that the universe is old? Is there some law that all stars had to form at the "start" of the universe and none may form today? Furthermore, EVEN if both of the above were true, 50,000-300,000 years is a lot longer than 6000.

Shouldn't there be some law against calling a massive treatise of ignorance an "encyclopedia"?

scombrid · 02-01-2002, 08:26 AM

<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/01-evol1.htm" target="_blank">My Favorite Part</a>

Pages of out of context quotes mostly operating on the premis that disagreement and questioning about a theory belies great invalidity in that theory.

edited to add:

Additionally, the quotes they have that are anti-evolution are generally made by uncredentialled quacks.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]</p>

tgamble · 02-01-2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pseudobug:
<strong>When will this madness end?

</strong>

When teachers stop likeing trash and start giving Fs for such trash? It seems the potential turning point is Johnny's teacher telling him to go find some accurate information. Or giving him some.

Oolon Colluphid · 02-01-2002, 08:42 AM

This may sound isolationist, but it’s not meant that way... The most infuriating thing about the web in this respect is that this excrement spreads far and wide beyond normal country boundaries. Americans have their own battle to fight with this stuff in schools, but put it on the web and it can contaminate the minds of kids in otherwise fairly creationist-free countries.

I’m particularly, er, surprised by the inclusion of Douglas Futuyma’s quote:

Quote:

"Creation and evolution, between them, exhaust the possible explanations for the origin of living things. Organisms either appeared on the earth fully developed or they did not. If they did not, they must have developed from pre-existing species by some process of modification. If they did appear in a fully developed state, they must have been created by some omnipotent intelligence."—*D.J. Futuyma, Science on Trial (1983), p. 197.

Note the subtle leaving out of the subtitle of Futuyma’s book: The Case for Evolution... which makes it sound like he’s against evolution! In fact the entire frigging book is probably the best single-volume macerating of creationism there is. This is quite the most ridiculous bit out out-of-contextness I’ve seen. I think I’ll e-mail Prof Futuyma and point this out to him... I’d not like to be in the same room when he sees it though!

TTFN, Oolon

scombrid · 02-01-2002, 08:47 AM

Nice catch on the Futuyma quote Oolon. I didn't even notice the convenient omission of the subtitle. I <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> can't <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> take <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> it <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> anymore <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Kevin · 02-01-2002, 08:54 AM

Even little Johnny should be able to spot the flaws in <a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/07prim05.htm" target="_blank">this section</a>.

Reason #7 why biogenesis is impossible, according to the Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia:
"There is no lab equipment out in nature"

Tim Thompson · 02-01-2002, 03:58 PM

Pathlights & Astrophysics

BLoggins02 has already mentioned a couple of the astronomical howlers on the Pathlights site. Last November somebody posted a list of 24 examples of "evidence for creation", to the <a href="http://www.truthtree.com/Evolution/index.html" target="_blank">Truth Tree Evolution Discussion Board</a>. They were all from the Pathlights collection, including both of the ones mentioned by BLoggins02. I wrote a webpage that refutes all 24: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Tim_J_Thompson/young-earth2.html" target="_blank">Is the Earth Young? A list for Blue Lightning</a>. The whole Pathlights collection is huge, way too big for anyone to tackle, but at least I've got a handle on this part.

Oolon Colluphid · 02-18-2002, 07:56 AM

Well, I've just had a reply from Doug Futuyma. Not exactly earth-shattering, but still:

Quote:

Thanks for sending me the misquotation. Yes, it's annoying, but nothing
new. Good luck in your efforts,

Douglas Futuyma

The "good luck in your efforts" made this worth sharing.

Cheers, Oolon

Jimmy Higgins · 02-18-2002, 08:46 AM

Is there an "infidel" website that has some sort of database that links all of these YEC/ID sites? Almost like a "lier" webring. Then list all the quotes and/or the people that they quote (and what the entire quote was), list their credentials, and what they actually believe, and their religion. This could be a huge "weapon" to counteract the massive indulgence of ignorance we evilutionists have to deal with. And perhaps we can put an end to the misquoting if the database becomes large and known enough.

Just an idea. Of course, there will be "copyright" issues, but if we were to just to copy what they were quoting, and then approximate what the website was trying to say, there should be no infringements.

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Jimmy Higgins ]</p>

02-01-2002, 08:09 AM	#1
pseudobug Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: land of confusion Posts: 178	Little Johnny has to do a report on evolution-creation debate.. so Johnny gets on the web, does a search and turns up this link:<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/index.htm" target="_blank">Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia</a> Looking at the site, Johnny thinks he has found a treasure trove of "useful", valid information. After all, it is on the internet, isn't it? And it does say "Encyclopedia" doesn't it? So it's gotta be correct, doesn't it? To make matters worse, Johnny's teacher likes Johnny's report and rewards him with a good grade. Mom and Dad are so proud when they learn how well little Johnny did on his "research" report. An even more chilling result is that Johnny, at a formative age, becomes convinced that scientists are chronic liars, hucksters and magicians. Johnny's mind is forever more convinced that science is a bunch of bullshit lies like he learned from his report. Then little Johnny grows up to be a big Johnny and momma-Johnny squirts out baby Johnnies that they raise to be just as ignorant. I am absolutely convinced, after just a few short weeks of being interested in this debate, that the above scenario or one very similar occurs at a high rate. Man, it absolutely turns my stomach when I see tripe like this on the web. The more I read some of this outlandish horse caca, the more steamed I get. When will this madness end?

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02-01-2002, 08:26 AM	#3
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	<a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/01-evol1.htm" target="_blank">My Favorite Part</a> Pages of out of context quotes mostly operating on the premis that disagreement and questioning about a theory belies great invalidity in that theory. edited to add: Additionally, the quotes they have that are anti-evolution are generally made by uncredentialled quacks. [ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ] [ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]</p>

02-01-2002, 08:47 AM	#6
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	Nice catch on the Futuyma quote Oolon. I didn't even notice the convenient omission of the subtitle. I <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> can't <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> take <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> it <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> anymore <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

02-01-2002, 08:54 AM	#7
Kevin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ... Posts: 1,245	Even little Johnny should be able to spot the flaws in <a href="http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/07prim05.htm" target="_blank">this section</a>. Reason #7 why biogenesis is impossible, according to the Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia: "There is no lab equipment out in nature"

02-01-2002, 03:58 PM	#8
Tim Thompson Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Pasadena, CA, USA Posts: 455	Pathlights & Astrophysics BLoggins02 has already mentioned a couple of the astronomical howlers on the Pathlights site. Last November somebody posted a list of 24 examples of "evidence for creation", to the <a href="http://www.truthtree.com/Evolution/index.html" target="_blank">Truth Tree Evolution Discussion Board</a>. They were all from the Pathlights collection, including both of the ones mentioned by BLoggins02. I wrote a webpage that refutes all 24: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Tim_J_Thompson/young-earth2.html" target="_blank">Is the Earth Young? A list for Blue Lightning</a>. The whole Pathlights collection is huge, way too big for anyone to tackle, but at least I've got a handle on this part.

02-18-2002, 08:46 AM	#10
Jimmy Higgins Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Proud Citizen of Freedonia Posts: 42,473	Is there an "infidel" website that has some sort of database that links all of these YEC/ID sites? Almost like a "lier" webring. Then list all the quotes and/or the people that they quote (and what the entire quote was), list their credentials, and what they actually believe, and their religion. This could be a huge "weapon" to counteract the massive indulgence of ignorance we evilutionists have to deal with. And perhaps we can put an end to the misquoting if the database becomes large and known enough. Just an idea. Of course, there will be "copyright" issues, but if we were to just to copy what they were quoting, and then approximate what the website was trying to say, there should be no infringements. [ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Jimmy Higgins ]</p>

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