Freethought & Rationalism Archive

General Zod · 03-16-2002, 09:18 PM

I'm having a rather hard time explaining the Big Bang to a lay theist I know. He ridicules it as a "bunch of unprovable (at least at this moment) guesses which are half-based on a half-reasonable conclussion". Can anyone think of a way that I can explain this to him? Recommending "A Brief History Of Time" didn't work since he says he can't get his hands on it.

Malaclypse the Younger · 03-16-2002, 09:31 PM

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553380168" target="_blank">A Brief History of Time</a> is still in print and can be purchased from Amazon.

General Zod · 03-16-2002, 09:35 PM

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Any way other than Brief History? Anyone?

Francois Tremblay · 03-16-2002, 11:10 PM

Tsh. Since he doesn't know any cosmology in the first place, who is he to say it's unprovable ? Background radiation, the red shift, our observation of stars that existed millions of years ago, what more does he need ? A written statement from God ?

Someone7 · 03-17-2002, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sartre:
I'm having a rather hard time explaining the Big Bang to a lay theist I know. He ridicules it as a "bunch of unprovable (at least at this moment) guesses which are half-based on a half-reasonable conclussion". Can anyone think of a way that I can explain this to him? Recommending "A Brief History Of Time" didn't work since he says he can't get his hands on it.

Y The Alien, is that you?

General Zod · 03-17-2002, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Someone7:


Y The Alien, is that you?

I found the password for a name I had registered on here. Hey, Someone7.

eh · 03-17-2002, 06:20 PM

Well if this theist believes the big bang to be, as Kent Hovind puts it, a dot in empty space that spun out of control and exploded, then talking to him might be a waste of time. But you could tell him that the BB tells us nothing about the creation of the universe, but rather how it evolved from the earliest stages.

The BB in short, tells us that present day universe is expanding, and evolved from a much denser, hotter state. This means that the further back in time we look, the closer the galaxies will be to each other. The good news is, we can look back in time. Has your friend ever seen pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope? See what he says about that.

excreationist · 03-17-2002, 07:05 PM

Well all the theists I've come across are more interested in where the big bang came from - not the details of the big bang... i.e. how could something come from "nothing"? (They are under the impression that the big bang came from nothing)
So what do people think? Did the big bang just happen within a larger outer universe? (that has more generalized physical rules)

eowynn · 03-17-2002, 07:15 PM

There is an interesting theory I have run across in relation to the Big Bang, which explains it without the necessity for a god at all-it is essentially a time loop. As we know it now, the universe is expanding and accelerating as it expands. It is theorized that one day the universe will either expend all its energy expanding and freeze or that it will collapse under the force of its own gravity. I favor the latter as it then follows that, after collapsing, the universe will explode again in another Big Bang. The theory I favor says this has been happening forever and is simply a time loop. There is no need for a creator.

Someone7 · 03-17-2002, 09:21 PM

I'll post the original quote in full and another one, so everyone can get a better idea of where this person is coming from.

Quote:

Re-enacment of the invention of the Big Bang:

Astrologist 1: "So the planets are moving away from each other, it seems. What does it tell us?"
Astrologist 2: "They used to be all in one spot?"
Astrologist 1: "Sure, that could work. Does anybody have any objections?"
Group of Astorlogists: "No, it seems fine..."
Astrologist 3: "That doesn't say anything about the creation of the universe though."
Astrologist 1: "You're right. how about we say there was a huge explosion that created everything we know?"
Astrologist 2: "But doesn't that go against the laws of Physics? After all, matter cannot be created."
Astrologist 1: "Well we'll just claim that the laws didn't apply back then."
Group of Astrologists : "Yeah, yeah, that's good!"
Astrologist 3: "But what's your proof?"
Astrologist 1: "Well without the universe there would be no laws, right? So we say that at that exact microsecond the laws were still not there."
Group of Astrologists: "You're brilliant! Let's give him an award or something!"

A bunch of unprovable (at least at this moment) guesses which are half-based on a half-reasonable conclussion. What's there to not believe? I'm sure you'll just tell me to read A Brief History of Time because it will just explain everything to me.

Quote:

The only observation they [scientists] based the whole thing on was that the planets are moving away from each other. That does not necessairly mean that there was a huge explosion that created matter, going against the laws of phsyics. It could be an endless cycle of planets being pulled between four very strong magnetic fields. It could be anything that would justify the planets and suns moving the way they are.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Someone7 ]

03-16-2002, 09:18 PM	#1
General Zod Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Mississippi Posts: 127	Explaining the Big Bang to a layman I'm having a rather hard time explaining the Big Bang to a lay theist I know. He ridicules it as a "bunch of unprovable (at least at this moment) guesses which are half-based on a half-reasonable conclussion". Can anyone think of a way that I can explain this to him? Recommending "A Brief History Of Time" didn't work since he says he can't get his hands on it.

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03-16-2002, 09:31 PM	#2
Malaclypse the Younger Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: nowhere Posts: 416	<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553380168" target="_blank">A Brief History of Time</a> is still in print and can be purchased from Amazon.

03-16-2002, 09:35 PM	#3
General Zod Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Mississippi Posts: 127	<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Any way other than Brief History? Anyone?

03-16-2002, 11:10 PM	#4
Francois Tremblay Banned Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 876	Tsh. Since he doesn't know any cosmology in the first place, who is he to say it's unprovable ? Background radiation, the red shift, our observation of stars that existed millions of years ago, what more does he need ? A written statement from God ?

03-17-2002, 06:20 PM	#7
eh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 624	Well if this theist believes the big bang to be, as Kent Hovind puts it, a dot in empty space that spun out of control and exploded, then talking to him might be a waste of time. But you could tell him that the BB tells us nothing about the creation of the universe, but rather how it evolved from the earliest stages. The BB in short, tells us that present day universe is expanding, and evolved from a much denser, hotter state. This means that the further back in time we look, the closer the galaxies will be to each other. The good news is, we can look back in time. Has your friend ever seen pictures from the Hubble Space Telescope? See what he says about that.

03-17-2002, 07:05 PM	#8
excreationist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Australia Posts: 4,886	Well all the theists I've come across are more interested in where the big bang came from - not the details of the big bang... i.e. how could something come from "nothing"? (They are under the impression that the big bang came from nothing) So what do people think? Did the big bang just happen within a larger outer universe? (that has more generalized physical rules)

03-17-2002, 07:15 PM	#9
eowynn Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 58	There is an interesting theory I have run across in relation to the Big Bang, which explains it without the necessity for a god at all-it is essentially a time loop. As we know it now, the universe is expanding and accelerating as it expands. It is theorized that one day the universe will either expend all its energy expanding and freeze or that it will collapse under the force of its own gravity. I favor the latter as it then follows that, after collapsing, the universe will explode again in another Big Bang. The theory I favor says this has been happening forever and is simply a time loop. There is no need for a creator.

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