Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oolon Colluphid · 04-02-2003, 08:07 AM

Okay, let's try again. Less inflammation this time, but will there be a response, or are those in question immune...?

Over in General Religious Discussions, I happened upon a couple of theists bandying the term �creation� around. So, I finally pointed out to them in this thread:

Quote:

Let's be clear on one thing: humans were not 'created'. Nor was any other living thing. So please clarify that you are speaking metaphorically (or metaphysically).

A reply came back:

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55:
Nope, we are speaking quite literally. You can't prove they weren't "created" so don't make dumb, illogical remarks from a position of fact since you have no clue.

Now, I may be mistaken, but I like to think I do have some clue about evolution. Hence, this thread.

To give us a starting point, I went on to say:

Quote:

On the contrary. Depending on your definition of �created�* and �prove�**, of course, we can say with some certainty that the bible is utterly wrong about the origins of life�s diversity and the origins of man. We have comparative genetics, comparative anatomy, and plenty of transitional fossils, amongst others, all demonstrating our close kinship with apes.

( * Allowing for it being created by evolution, with or without god�s help.
** Allowing for the world being empirical, not mathematically pre-defined.)

So, now we are in the correct forum, it�s over to you, Magus (and anyone else who wants to disagree):

I say there is plenty of evidence for human evolution, and that the bible, taken literally as you seem to, is flat-wrong on this matter. I also say that there is too much evidence to try to present all at once -- mine is the standard scientific position, and I do not yet know what exactly it is you disagree with. So, since I am apparently making �dumb, illogical remarks� and �have no clue�, I ask politely -- nay, insist -- that you show me why I�m wrong. Out with it. Put up or shut up.

TTFN, DT

Wounded King · 04-02-2003, 09:58 AM

It is true in as much as you can't prove the universe wasn't only created last Tuesday, but in such a way as to seem as we see it now, or that all matter outside the visible universe is actually sherry trifle.

Godot · 04-03-2003, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darwin's Terrier
So, since I am apparently making �dumb, illogical remarks� and �have no clue�, I ask politely -- nay, insist -- that you show me why I�m wrong. Out with it. Put up or shut up.

TTFN, DT

I think your dumb, illogical remarks and lack of a clue stem from the fact that you are unwilling to blindly follow the innane and contradictory writings of hoodwinked fishermen that followed a socialist carpenter (suffering from a god complex, I might add) that was nailed to a tree because he wanted to be nice to people for a change.
:banghead:
So there.

Bubba · 04-03-2003, 05:08 PM

Darwin's Terrier

...perhaps if you only had more faith

you would be able to believe that your ancestors really co existed with dinosaurs...just like Ken Ham says...:banghead:

That's it...just believe...abandoning thinking won't really be that painful...will it?

In Darwin

Bubba

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04-02-2003, 09:58 AM	#2
Wounded King Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,211	It is true in as much as you can't prove the universe wasn't only created last Tuesday, but in such a way as to seem as we see it now, or that all matter outside the visible universe is actually sherry trifle.

04-03-2003, 05:08 PM	#4
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Darwin's Terrier ...perhaps if you only had more faith you would be able to believe that your ancestors really co existed with dinosaurs...just like Ken Ham says...:banghead: That's it...just believe...abandoning thinking won't really be that painful...will it? In Darwin Bubba

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