Defiant Heretic

Hmm...the problem I see is that your post seems a bit devoid of substance. It's saying we shouldn't just stand by and let the government erode the wall of separation, but most of the people who post in this forum probably already think that. For those who don't, it might come off as a bit too militant.

Most people don’t see the threat that Bush & Co. present to the Establishment Clause. We need to convince them that there is a threat before convincing them to fight it.

Melkor

Excellent!

We should declare Carl Sagan as our immortal leader and pray to him for guidance!!!

Richard1366

We tend to look at making changes in society from the larger world view, but those types of massive changes are very difficult. Ghandi had the right idea, a single man with an ideal taking a stand. There is a way to take positive action, it is very inexpensive, doesn’t take a lot of time, but believe me it can be effective.

It’s time for atheists to go to church! Note that I did not say attend church. It is time we take our message out of the proverbial closet and display it for all to see. If you noticed, the pictures of the fundies at the GAMOW seemed to have these beautifully crafted message signs, most with the “STOP what you’re doing and love Jebus or go to Hell” theme. These signs, from their viewpoint, are completely generic and suitable for use anywhere. Picket a hospital that offers abortions, picket a gay/lesbian bar, picket a suggestive movie that would dare to be sacreligious, picket an art gallery with controversial art on display, etc. On the other hand, we atheists are an unorganized bunch when it comes to getting out a message, of course, we haven’t had much experience with it seemingly preferring to stay within our own community since we are a minority and are universally hated by everyone of every religious faith.

It’s time for us to act, time to be in-your-face visible, time to take our message to where the den of vipers gather, the churches, mosques and synagogs.

Years ago, during the Vietnam war, I supported our troops in Vietnam (I was too damned old to fight ) and whenever there was an anti-war demonstration or march in DC, I would be there with my picket sign on the side of the road. Believe me, you have never lived until you stand on the curb during an anti-war parade, with a pro-administration picket sign and have 50,000 people give you the finger while “goose-stepping” by. While picketing other events, I was constantly asked, who is paying you for this, who do you work for. Even though the anti-war activists themselves picketed various places for their cause, for some reason they simply couldn’t understand why anyone else would picket for their own beliefs.

Picketing 101:

For those of you that have never done it, walking with a picket sign in what can be best described as “hostile territory” can seem to be a daunting and even frightening undertaking.

It does take some careful planning to effectively picket, but once you have done it, it becomes second nature and is actually an enjoyable experience. It is much more enjoyable if there are 2 or more involved, but if you have to do it alone you will find it as much or more of an exhilarating experience, you against the multitudes.

Pick your message carefully, use simple everyday words. Personally, I never liked the II T-shirt saying of “Culture jam those darned theistic memes” most people would never understand it. On the other hand, something like “Fuck Jesus” although simple enough, gives out the wrong message. Don’t make the meaning of the sign too obscure, or too thoughtful, remember fundies are not prone to thinking. The II website is full of great slogans, such as:

RELIGION STOPS A THINKING MIND

GOD IS SIMPLY SANTA CLAUSE FOR ADULTS

Use a dark colored paint and large, all capital, block letters on the sign. Make a light pencil layout of the letters before you paint them in.

Make your picket sign sturdy, usually a 1 x 3 piece of lumber 8 feet long works quite well. The message area should also be as large as possible and of sturdy material. If you use full sheets of poster board, staple them to the front and back of the 1 x 3 and staple them together on the side. It is ideal if you put another board at the top and perpendicular to the 1 x 3 (in a “T” shape) to attach the poster board to as well for added stability. This type of sign allows you to put a message on the front and back as well and is much more stable if there is a slight breeze blowing.

In order to maintain anonymity, you could go to another town and picket the largest church there. It is only necessary to be there with an appropriate (or inappropriate) picket sign, you don’t have to get into any deep conversations with the church goers. Let your sign speak for you. The nice part is that you only have to picket for approximately ½ hour before the start of the 1st service to catch people’s attention as they drive into the parking lot. I’m sure the word about the picketing will be passed on to those at the later services.

Do take the time to go to the church on the Sunday prior to your picketing to check out the territory, to see what the traffic flow is and to pick out the most effective spot to stand, also look for a convenient place to park your car, preferably about ½ block away.

Know your rights and stand up for them. You have a 1st Amendment right to picket a church, even though people will probably try to use scare tactics to get you to leave. Sometimes you will be threatened with legal action, but this is sheer nonsense, since you are doing nothing illegal. If you are ever threatened with violence, simply call the local police, do not fight back. Speak softly but firmly, never get into a shouting match, again, let the words on your sign speak for you. Being calm, reasonable, and never showing anger is by far the best offensive posture.

I would be remiss to remind you that many of our law enforcement personnel are fundies as well. Do not be intimidated should you be “hassled” by the police. If the law enforcement officer says that there is an ordinance against picketing a church or picketing on Sunday and that you can’t be there, then get the officer’s name and badge number and ask him/her what is the specific ordinance number you are violating. Do whatever the officer says, (because if you don’t you could be cited for failing follow a police order) but make sure that you follow up, call the Chief of Police to complain, or better yet, go to the police station. Demand written proof that what you are doing is wrong. (They of course won’t be able to do that) Above all, make sure that you go back to that same church either for the second service or next Sunday for the same service if for no other reason than to prove a point.

I will guarantee that by taking a positive action, such as this, in the cause of atheism that you will feel a wonderful sense of both accomplishment and fulfillment.

Within our II community we can talk among ourselves about atheism, agnosticism, and the various shades of non-belief, but to simplify our message to those outside we can learn from the religious ones who simply refer to them selves as christians no matter what particular branch, i.e. Methodist, Baptist, Calvinist, etc. I would suggest that you refer to yourself as an atheist, again to simplify the message.

Just as we ask those who write letters to the editor to keep us informed if it is printed, I also ask that you keep us informed if you decided to take action.

Enjoy...

Toto

Richard1366: I respectfully disagree with your idea. Picketing may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but I think it would be about as effective as your counter picket at the anti-war demonstrations. It might also create the image of atheists as just the anti-religious nuts, the counters to the religious nuts.

Just Another Infidel

I agree with Toto. I don't think we should be attacking their beliefs when they are being exercised in the privacy of their churches and homes.

Wouldn't we be better served by attacking specific religious activities which infringe on the public awareness or the separation clause? Maybe picketing the houses of government when religious legislation is being considered? How about showing up in force when schoolboards are making creationism decisions. Maybe we should show up when the religionists are having one of those national rallies so the televison viewers realize there are other points of view.

I guess I don't really want to attack anybody's right to believe. I just want to keep them from pushing it on me and my children.

Where and who are the secular organizations which are doing charitable work? I can't think of a better way to nuetralize theist assertions that atheists are anti-social nuts than by beating them at their own Public Relations game. Everybody admires groups who are helping others and this battle is going to be about winning hearts and minds.

JAI

Shake

Add me to the list: I agree with Toto and Just Another Infidel. I think at best, picketing would get you some media attention, and just perhaps, allow some other infidel the courage to 'come out' about his/her godlessness. But by and large it will not have the type of effect that Sushi is looking for. Unless of course, you could somehow coordinate infidels all across the country to do this on a particular Sunday.

I'd suggest supporting or joining one of the organizations I mentioned earlier: AU, American Atheists, FFRF, the ACLU, etc. There are other easy ways to do some secular activism, such as writing letters to the editor about issues that concern you as a godless American, or letters, faxes and emails to politicians (I believe it's on the AU site that you can target your specific representatives). Here is the link to act about legislation that's before Congress! Finally, do your civic duty and vote in any and every election that you can. One vote may not seem like much, but a non-vote implies consent with the results!

Toto

If you're thinking of picketing, you might want to consider an alternative form of street performance, such as this:

Rev Billy preaches against consumerism (requires free registration)

Although it appears that Rev Billy has been getting some good press, it looks like his actual effectiveness is about zilch. But at least it's positive press, and he's having fun.

Sushi X

You all make me sick, absolutely sick.

Toto, Just another infidel, and Shake, I'm tempted to say that you wouldn't mind if "Shrub" DID take away the Establishment clause.

My friends, Richard1366 has the same idea I do, he just phrases it better. There's a reason why the Atheist population is mostly converts! It's because our arguments make sense! Most people wouldn't even take the time to listen to us, so if we force it down their throats, then they will see that we make sense!

It's true, I would rather have us not have to do what we have to do, but we must "lower ourselves to their level." It's time we take our argument to the streets!

GAMOW was a step in the right direction. Even with it's limited and often biased media coverage, it made a difference.

American Atheists having an office in Washington DC is another step in getting centralization. We NEED to get our message to the people!

Please! I beg of you! The time for passiveness is over!

ybnormal

For what it's worth, SX, you probably will find no one on this forum who may agree with you more than I, in a general sense, however, Shake asked like 3 days ago...

I do support your basic call, but need to know what you propose to do.

and I have been checking back every now and then to see you answer exactly that.

Thanks to folks like yourself, I don't get yelled at so often for MY tone.

GaryP

Sushi, I certainly understand and even agree with your thoughts.

I think the time for passiveness is well past. However, I think one would be well advised to concentrate on the problem of church/state separation and not attacking the belief itself.

If a 10 commandment monument is put up, demand a similar monument for the humanist credo, for instance. or if there is a creche at Christmas on public property ask for permission to put up an Atheist greeting.

I think most Americans can grasp the concept of fairness and justice. Tit for tat so to speak. There are allies out there masquerading as moderate to liberal Christians. By attacking the belief, per se, they can quickly become our adversaries.

The trick is to get more of us vocal enough to demand that equality.