From the Foramen Magnum thread (trying to keep threads on-topic):
Quote:
Ed:
See my Kow Swamp reference where evidence is provided that erectus lived as recently as 10,000 years ago and probably interbred with sapiens.
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Goody, another whopping error. First, you need to check the thread again, because you provided only an assertion with no reference. Second, the Kow Swamp fossils are obviously not H. erectus, unless you have your own, private taxonomic criteria, just as you have you own, private definition of widely-used words like "modern," "posterior," "skull," and "typo." As
Peter's Brown's comments make abundantly clear, the Kow Swamp fossils are modern H. sapiens, not H. erectus, based on accepted taxonomic criteria.
So, the question is, on which creationist website did you read this claptrap, and why didn't you bother to check out the information for yourself? Just to make sure you don't have any excuse to make the same mistake in the future, here is what Peter Brown has to say about the Kow Swamp fossils and whether they are H. erectus:
Quote:
As to the characters in Lubenow's list:
1. Skull low, broad, and elongated.
The KS, Coobool and Nacurrie crania are not low. The deformed crania are very high (very unlike H. erectus) and the rest fall within the modern Aboriginal range.
2. Cranial capacity 750-1250
Endocranial volume for WL50 is about 1500 ml (big vault, but pathological) and Coobool Creek mean is 1404 for males (modern Aborigines 1271).
3. Median sagittal ridge
Median sagittal ridge fairly common in modern males throughout Australia (and Asia as well), rare in females. Not diagnostic of H. erectus.
4. Supraorbital ridges
Moderate supraorbital development. True torus VERY rare. Nothing at all like H. erectus.
5. Postorbital constriction
Yes, but this is simply a function of a VERY large masticatory apparatus, well developed temporal muscles and a diet which traditionally required lots of chewing, and the long head shape of Aborigines lends itself to greater postorbital constriction. Importantly postorbital constriction at Kow Swamp not outside the range of recent prehistoric Aborigines, but less than in H. erectus.
6. Receding frontal contour
Aboriginal crania have a more receding frontal contour than Europeans. Not greater at Kow Swamp or Coobool except in deformed crania, some of which have a MUCH flatter frontal bone than in Homo erectus as do artificially deformed Native American crania. But flat frontal bones are not the same as a receding cranial profile. The clearest sign of deformation is the flattened frontal bone on a very high vault with minimal curvature in the occipital region. H. erectus crania have a long low vault with a sharply angled occipital at the occipital torus. [See Brown 1981]
7. Occiptal bun or torus
Occipital torus common in males but the morphology of the occipital region is nothing like H. erectus.
8. Nuchal area extended for muscle attachment
Prehistoric Aborigines had a large area of neck muscle attachment comparable to hunter gatherers in other parts of the world, but not extended as in H. erectus. Quite petite at Kow Swamp: KS5 had a small area of neck muscle attachment, KS1 had more but the occipital is incomplete. All of the Kow Swamp skulls are relatively large, so they have correspondingly large areas of muscle attachment but they all fall within the range of recent prehistoric Aborigines in this respect.
9. Cranial wall unusually thick overall
Cranial vault wall is thickened but the pattern is not like that in H. erectus. See my article on vault thickness in the Pithecanthropus volume (J.L.Franzen (ed) 1994. 100 years of Pithecanthropus. The Homo erectus problem. Courier Forschunginstitut Senckenberg 171)
10. Brain case narrower than the zygomatic arch
Brain case is normally narrower than zygomatic arch but this is to be expected in a dolicochephalic vault with a well developed masticatory system. Homo erectus crania all have long and low vault, with relatively great breadth across the zygomatic arch and marked postorbital constriction. No modern humans, or their ancestors in the last 20,000 years, approach the H. erectus condition.
11. Heavy facial architecture
Facial architecture is not what I would describe as heavy. Big palates, big teeth and reasonable supraorbital development but mid face (zygomatics) are delicate in Aboriginal crania. VERY marked contrast to H. erectus crania like Sangiran 17.
12. Alveolar (maxilla) prognathism
Big teeth, big palates, prognathic faces. The general evolutionary trend has been for a reduction in masticatory system architecture over the last 100,000 years. This trend continued until around 6,000 years ago.There are arguments about the degree to which this is linked to technological change and food preparation. In some parts of the world this trend appears to have proceeded more slowly. This may be because the hunter gatherer masticatory environment maintained strong selection for large teeth. It is hard to find absolute differences between the teeth of terminal Pleistocene Aborigines and Homo erectus but the most obvious one is in the molar size sequence. In H. erectus the smallest molar is usually the first, next largest the 2nd and largest the third. In Aborigines the largest molar is usually the second. In Europeans and east Asians the largest molar is usually the first.
13. Large jaw, wide ramus
Large mandible due to large teeth. H.erectus has a broad ramus while all Aborigines, including Kow Swamp, are narrow.
14. No chin (mentum)
Most aboriginal mandibles have a chin but it is not as prominent as in Europeans. This is what you would expect with larger teeth and greater alveolar development.
15. Teeth generally large
Teeth large, particularly molars, but tooth size pattern not like H. erectus. Largest molar normally M2, followed by M1 and M3. In erectus, M1 is smallest, M3 largest.
16. Post-cranial bones heavy and thick
Postcranial bones are not heavy and thick. Lightly built tropical hunter/gatherers. Postcranial skeletons not as robust as urban Europeans or Asians, let alone Homo erectus.
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Patrick
07-08-2003, 07:47 AM
Kow Swamp Fossils are Homo sapiens
