Ojuice5001

The word "myth" is a poorly understood word. Etymologically, it means "sacred story." Another meaning, the one I use, refers to a certain genre of writings. This genre of writings is a kind of revelation of the gods; the gods are real, but myths in general are not historical. And of course, there is a popular meaning that carries a built-in connotation of falsehood; this meaning is indefensible. Not only is it question-begging, it distracts us from the true nature of mythology.

As I said, myths are not historically true, or attempts to be historically true. But the sacred stories of the Jews are quite different; they are attempts to be historically true. Not the stuff that happens before Abraham, of course--but the rest is.

Now, my theological ideas are quite dependent on Yahweh being essentially the same kind of god as others--for instance, those of the Romans. (Jesus would have to be considered an oddity, and yet I've always found it quite tenable that he is only an oddity. Not so with the consideration I bring up here.) So if Yahweh is active in history in a way so unprecedented among other cultures, that leads to the suspicion that perhaps he really is a different kind of god, as the Jews and Christians believe.

I need to clear up two misunderstandings. First, I see Jupiter as being far from inactive in history. But he works in different ways--he works through either kings and priests, or random events. Nothing wrong with these ideas, except that they look considerably more as if they were invented by humans, and are less falsifiable. This doesn't mean they're false, of course, but it does make Judaism look superior if they had a theism that makes historical claims that are much more unique and falsifiable.

Falsification is the second point I need to clear up. I don't want this thread to be about how well the Bible has held up to historical inquiry. That's been discussed a whole lot, on and off this forum. That question comes second, after the question of why the Jews make this kind of claim in the first place and other cultures don't.

If it is true that the Jews have this kind of historical god, and the pagans (especially Roman pagans) don't, I see only three responses I could make. One is an attempt to downplay this distinction; that's what I've been doing, and it doesnt' seem promising at this point. The second is to say, "There's a first time for everything. Maybe the Roman pantheon hasn't made Yahweh-style interventions yet, but if humans do the right things, they will." I have often toyed with the idea of becoming a sort of pagan Abraham, and perhaps it is necessary for Jupiter to prevail over Christianity and atheism. The third is a conversion to an Abrahamic religion, probably Xianity. If this train of reasoning is valid, I need to try these courses of action in that order.

mike_decock

The earliest Old Testament scriptures were more polytheistic in nature: the "elohim" (a plural form of God), "Let US create man in OUR image", "Thou shalt hold no OTHER GODS before me", etc. There was then a theological evolution to "one TRUE God" to "only ONE God".

All religions wove their Gods into their historic records. I haven't read too much about Roman history, but the Gods were always present. I think the distinction that polytheistic religions have is that they have a separate mythology about the interactions of their Gods, whether Sumerian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman or Hindu.

Personally, I think the atheists are the most theologically evolved: Polytheism -> Monotheism -> Atheism .

-Mike...

Ojuice5001

Can you give an example of writings like the Bible, that are both moderately good history, and yet their primary purpose is to reveal the Roman gods?



That doesn't mean that atheism is true, or that polytheism isn't. Perhaps the world has been losing knowledge of god(s) these past 1600 years.

mike_decock

I don't know of any primary sources that reveal the Roman Gods, weren't they mostly Greek in origin?

Why only the past 1600 years? Why not trace back to the Sumerian Gods of 6,000 years ago?

-Mike...

Ojuice5001

Okay, so think of the Greek gods. I consider Roman and Greek paganism to be two different revelations of the same gods.

And yes, it's possible that some pre-classical culture had the best knowledge of the gods. It's just not the position I adhere to; I admit to not having given a whole lot of consideration to Sumerian paganism. I picked the fourth century because that's the time of Constantine, who of course was the beginning of the end for the Roman religion.

mike_decock

I think I understand a little better what you're looking for but I'm not very well versed in either Greek or Roman mythology and how they relate to history. The little that I have read, the Gods were often involved with the events of the day, but I never considered them to be "revelations" of the Gods.

I think one of the problems is that paganism, from whatever era, doesn't seem to have an easily identifiable collection of "Sacred Texts". The beliefs of the Greeks and Romans seem to be more flexible. The political leaders didn't seem to be too closely connected to the spiritual leaders.

Jewish history is closely tied with their religion because the religious leadership and the political leadership was, for the most part, the same people.

In Sumerian or Egyptian paganism, the historical documents are more closely tied with their religious beliefs.

-Mike...

Magus55

Jewish history has nothing to do with Roman/Greek religions, and I take offense to the implication.

Spaz

He was comparing

Ojuice5001

It's called comparative religions. I'm asking about different religons' relations to history, and I had in mind a possible reason why your Jewish theology may conceivably be superior to mine. Mike was thinking in the same terms I am--how do different forms of theism relate to history?

Do you really think there's no comparison between the Jewish and Roman religions? Both believe that there are a personal supernatural entities active in history. These two beliefs are similar but not the same, and certainly can be compared.

Magus55

Sorry, thought you meant Judaism came directly from Roman mythology.