Treacle Worshipper

I guess this is mainly to Xians, altho' anyone else who knows is welcome to contribute
When I was an Xian, I believed you could lose your salvation. I only ever came across one person who believed in "once saved, always saved". Can you outline for me the theological reasoning behind both positions, and explain why you believe the one you choose?
Thank you,
TW

malookiemaloo

Hello.

The ethos behind 'once saved always saved' is that God is able to keep His own. In other words it is not up to each individual Christian to hold onto God. He keeps them 'in the palm of His hand and none shall pluck them out'. This is the view to which I subscribe.

I suppose it is like a family. If my son rebels against me and leaves home, he is still in the family and nothing can change that.

There are many examples in the Bible of this. One of the most famous is when God was going to destroy His people. Moses, incredibly, told God if He did people would laugh at Him because he could not save His people.

It is a tremendous comfort for a Christian to know that they are 'once saved always saved'.

(This of course begs the question of how God will deal with a 'saved rebel' on judgement day.)


I know this position raises more questions than it answers eg what about people who fall away. The point is that the onus is on God, not us.


I do not know what the theological position for the opposie view is. I really don't think there is one myself, but no doubt someone on the Sec. Web will prove me wrong!

cheers,


m

Psycho Economist

once saved, always saved?

Proponent: Nobody born-again would ever turn away from Christianity.
Counter-example: Well, I was and I did.
Proponent: But nobody who was really born-again could turn away.

Basically calvanism meets the no-true-Scottsman fallacy.

Ab_Normal

:notworthy :notworthy

Treacle Worshipper

Thank you for your replies so far.
Just to clarify, I don't mean people using the "if you were truly saved, you wouldn't have lost faith argument". I mean people who say, "If you have once been truly saved, it doesn't matter if you turn away, because you can't lose your salvation."
As I say, I've only met one person who held this view. Malookiemaloo makes two, and, as she says,
This of course begs the question of how God will deal with a 'saved rebel' on judgement day.
Any more thoughts, anyone?
TW

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Treacle Worshipper,

I have only known one person who held this view strongly (and a few more who were non-comittal).

It was when I was still fundified myself, and she (a close girlfriend) did what I at the time characterized as "backsliding" - living with her boyfriend, going out drinking, not going to church - all things that at the time I thought were "sinful". When I asked her if she had lost her faith her answer was that no, she just didn't believe in all the "legalistic" religious stuff anymore and that in any case, she didn't have to worry because "once saved, always saved".

I can't remember how I responded at the time but I'm certain I was filled with "righteous indignation"...LOL... although I think I was jealous too In any case, I "did her one better" before too long and gave up the ancient superstitious nonsense entirely.

Unfortunately I have no idea where she is or what she is doing now, so I haven't a clue what her beliefs are today. Maybe they get a condo or apartment with an alley view instead of a pearly mansion overlooking the crystal sea???

Amos

OSAS is a necessary thruth and is confirmed with the Virgin Birth (you can only be a virgin once) and the sin against the holy spirit (you can only lose your virginity one).

What it means to be saved becomes the contributing factor and also if being saved is " the end of all things" or is it just "the beginning of another." For example, if to be saved is the end of our "ordinary period" and thereby the "beginning of our purgation period" to be saved means that we enter the purgation period at the point of salvation. But if this just enter us into the fire needed to purge us from the concept sin that has become alive in us through the law (Romans 7 and Gal.2:7), it would be wrong if we do not die to this concept and so be set free from the conviction of sin. If not, we will physically die while engulved by the paradox sinful yet saved.

Sarpedon

If you were once part of the flock, God will bring you back into the fold, apparently.

I wonder if this applies to Satan too?

Treacle Worshipper

Thanks to everyone who's responded so far.
And *bump* because I'm sure there are some theists around here who believe that you can lose your salvation, & I'd like to hear their reasons for that. Not looking for an argument, just interested.
TW

Psycho Economist

When you're to the point of playing games with what it means to be "truly" saved, how are the two statements not equivalent?

-- Ex-almost-Calvanist