Heathen Dawn

My interest in Wicca spurred to me to read two books: Wicca: a Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham, and The Heart of Wicca by Ellen Cannon Reed. In many ways these two books are diametrically opposed to each other, and the Wicca portrayed in the one is not the Wicca in the other.

Reading Cunningham's book, one is led to think Wicca is a nature-worshipping religion - which is why I was attracted to it in the first place, because I'm a nature-worshipper. In the introductory pages it has such phrasings as "celebrate your kinship with Nature with Wicca" and "a gentle, Earth-oriented religion".

Reed's book, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. That crone (the book is subtitled "wise words from a crone on the path") is against the notion of Wicca, or paganism in general, as a religion. She talks about Wicca as an initiatory, Mystery religion, very much like the Pagan Mysteries mentioned in the book The Jesus Mysteries. Wicca in her book is not the fluffbunny earth-based nature-worshipping religion Cunningham portrays, but rather a complex, polished, mystical path of awareness of inner secrets - very much like Hindu Saddhu paths and other institutes of mystic learning.

I'm now confused at what Real Wicca is. Reed insists Wicca is a initiatory Mystery religion, and that the Gods and Goddesses are real, literal beings, and that the path of coven work is a hard-earned one. Reed's book is what can be called "anti-fluffbunny" - a reiteration of what I read on the website of <a href="http://www.whywiccanssuck.com" target="_blank">Why Wiccans Suck</a>.

The relevance for me, as a metaphysical naturalist, is that I'm anti-mystical, and if Wicca is a mystery religion of initiation into supernatural secrets then I will have nothing to do with it. What do you think? Is Wicca a religion of nature and nature-worship, or is it all about initiation into Divine Mysteries?

Veil of Fire

Why are the two mutually exclusive? They're two sides of the same coin, much like how Tibetan Buddism and Zen Buddism are both still Buddism. There are non-mystical anti-fluffs (I like to put myself there), and there are mystical fluffies. There are ceremonial nature worshippers and 'wing-it' style Initiates.

Which, to some people, really makes Wicca take a big credibility hit.

For what it's worth, I tend to agree with Cunningham over Reed. Sometimes even Cunningham is too precisely ritualistic for my tastes. My PERSONAL opinion is that Cunningham is right, and Reed is a Ceremonial Quasi-Kabbalist trying to apply a more popular label to her group.

Also my PERSONAL opinion is that for real up-close-and-personal nature worship with half the confusion of Wicca, druidism is the way to go. An Driocht Fain (spelling is probably horridly mangled) is a good place to start... although I prefer the <a href="http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/" target="_blank">New Reformed Druids of North America</a>.

Heathen Dawn

They're exclusive because nature-worship is all about attuning oneself to seen, felt, sensed things (reverence of the natural realm), whereas mystical initiation is all about becoming aware of supernatural realms beyond our physical one. I can hardly see how the two opposite focusses can be reconciled.

Usually a mystical religion involves a lot of reading sacred books and turning oneself from all things earthly. Buddhism One Way, and I don't like it at all.

I like neither the religion that demands submission to gods nor that which demands detachment from the physical reality. I thrive on nature-worship.

Panta Pei

And there you have found your answer...you decide that path which is important to your concept of existence and how you relate.

"For this is the only commandment, By Magick of old be it done.

Eight words the Witches Creed fulfill:

If it Harms none, Do what Thou Will!"

Another recommendation you might find of interest is Pantheism.

You'll be able to find some good information here:

<a href="http://www.pantheism.net" target="_blank">www.pantheism.net</a>

best to you.

never been there

...or Taoism (of the philosophical variety).

More important, are you looking for something to belong to, or are you hoping someone has already broken trail on the path you have decided to follow?

dostf

Heathen dawn:

- I would suggest either "way" is incomplete and incorrect.
- you and i (human being) is the essence

Be seeing you...

Heathen Dawn

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Philosophy isn't enough. I need ceremony and ritual as well.

I'm trying to find nature-based, nature-worshipping religion to satisfy my (pardon the expression) soul. Wicca sounded like a good candidate, but it appears there are too many supernatural, occult, mystical elements in it for my liking. I'm trying to avoid mystical stuff like wildfire.

Panta Pei, thanks for the pantheism link, it's splendid.

Panta Pei

You're welcome.

There are lots of friendly seekers there...from the slightly mystical to the scientific.

I hope that it will provide you something that you find relevant to your life.

Aquila ka Hecate

Heathen Dawn, I think I know where you're coming from, as it sounds similar to a problem I have recently encountered.
After 16+ years in wicca, I had grown heartlity sick and tired of the lunatic thinking which tends to permeate it.
I finally (and only recently) satisfied my own need for celebration of life without the supernatural attachments, plus my somewhat irrational need to give my lifestyle a name, by keeping much of what is worthy in wicca and neo-paganism, trashing all reference to the supernatural, and calling myself a "secular pagan".

It sits well with me, doesn't unduly bother my pagan-theist of a partner, and gives me a good excuse to dance on the equinox!

I sincerely hope that you find a way to satisy your needs.

(And have a good equinox!)

Heathen Dawn

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Not to mention the <a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/index.htm" target="_blank">scary rituals</a>!

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Hey! I like that! That's the reason why I call myself "heathen" - both naturalist and pagan.

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All I need is a system of rituals... ceremony... the stuff of a proper religious order.

Thanks. Happy Mabon to you too!