Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 05-26-2003, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
Communism, the hope of atheists everywhere, was outdated almost overnight.

Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism
Atheism != Communism

How many times will I have to repeat that?

Radorth · 05-26-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

But if Jesus Christ has been god, he had therefore been omniscient, meaning that he would have known all future history.

He was not, nor did he claim to be in the flesh. Even then, I think he pretty well knew what would occur, but not when.

Quote:

Unless either JC had not been god, or god is less-than-omnimax.

I'm impressed enough with a good God who can work miracles and has enough power to send me to hell. Your continued rhetorical use of the word "omnimax" is not nearly as impressive to me.

Quote:

Meaning, perhaps, that one can commit whatever sins one wants to if one believes in JC.

God doesn't save people who would blithely abuse their liberty so, but rather those who "thirst for righteousness."

Quote:

Thus becoming responsible by omission.

See above.

Quote:

Omission such as not setting the record straight on what is the right interpretation of the Bible and stuff like that.

You seem more interested in finding contradictions at this point in time, so I won't waste my time. As you know, we invariably find what we seek.

Quote:

But if it is invalid, then what is it doing in the Bible?

The point is that the "law is our schoolmaster" without which we would never know how far short we had fallen. Ironically, some Pharisee's actually thought they could obey the law, but Jesus put that idea to rest with his Sermon on the Mount. (Well for some of us less holy folks anyway)

Quote:

Then why not program people to follow it to the letter and be done with it?

Well there you go. You mean like those Chrsitian "robots" you are so loathe to be like? I know, if God had just humans so, the poor nits wouldn't know the difference, like say a snake who grew up in a cage. What would it care?

Quote:

People will still have plenty of Free Will -- virtuous Free Will.

Make that "like a vegetarian snake who grew up in a cage, and played cards with mice while munching on carrots."

Oh joy!

You're right though. That's one way to make a world. Given the choice, we'd all take this one I'm sure, and swear not to listen those promising us our own "wisdom" and "knowledge."

Rad

lpetrich · 05-27-2003, 01:38 AM

First, Radorth, I challenge you to a debate about evolution, about whether or not there is convincing evidence of descent with modification on a massive scale. Let's see you put up your dukes and give it your best shot.

On Jesus Christ claiming that he had been God:

Radorth:
He was not, nor did he claim to be in the flesh. Even then, I think he pretty well knew what would occur, but not when.

So you come on the side of the JC != God position, as opposed to the JC == God position?

I'm impressed enough with a good God who can work miracles and has enough power to send me to hell.

And who otherwise seems either impotent or in hiding -- or both.

Your continued rhetorical use of the word "omnimax" is not nearly as impressive to me.

Except that that's a convenient shorthand for what the theologians themselves say.

You seem more interested in finding contradictions at this point in time, so I won't waste my time. As you know, we invariably find what we seek.

Except that there are numerous counterexamples to this proposition.

The point is that the "law is our schoolmaster" without which we would never know how far short we had fallen.

Seems like self-pity.

(on god programming us to be virtuous...)

Well there you go. You mean like those Chrsitian "robots" you are so loathe to be like?

Huh? Where did I ever claim that? I think that one can be perfectly virtuous and not be a zombie -- even if one had been programmed to be perfectly virtuous. Otherwise people in Heaven would be zombies, angels would be zombies, and god himself would be a zombie.

(some absurd analogies deleted)

Starboy · 05-27-2003, 06:39 AM

It appears that if someone has a tortured mind and the evidence of that state of mind is there for everyone to see you cannot point it out. That just doesn't sit right with me. Who does it serve when we tie our hands behind our backs by not allowing anyone to point out to Christians just how crazy and wacky they have become? No one.

Starboy

Muffinstuffer · 05-27-2003, 06:47 AM

On the one hand, Starboy, I understand your point, and I definitely agree that some Christians need to get a reality check sometimes.

But on the other hand, Christians are USED to just about EVERY non-Christian telling them they're wacky and tortured and all that good stuff.

hezekiah jones · 05-27-2003, 07:47 AM

lpetrich
First, Radorth, I challenge you to a debate about evolution, about whether or not there is convincing evidence of descent with modification on a massive scale. Let's see you put up your dukes and give it your best shot.

Remember he did that once? He started a thread, made two more posts after that, and then quickly scurried away after claiming Hitler and Stalin used evolution to murder 50 million people.

Rational BAC · 05-27-2003, 07:57 AM

This thread has gotten way off topic.

Let me go back to one of my earlier questions that is at least a little on topic.

We really need a good concensus opinion of what is a Fundy.

I said previously that something we all should agree on is--------

THIS----

"Someone who believes that the Bible is inerrant in all ways, is the direct word of God and must be true in every sentence and in every word"

(Actually that is a bit of a paraphrase of my previous defintion. -------because I forgot what I said last time and don't want to try and find it.)

But does anyone at all disagree with this definition as a consensus opinion of the forum?

If no responses -----------then I will assume my definition is a valid one.

(Reality check here for those who have gone off onto different tangents.)

And we will go from there.------------

Starboy · 05-27-2003, 08:12 AM

Rational BAC, what about a person that thinks any part of the bible no matter how small is inerrant? Or any religious claim?

Starboy

Rational BAC · 05-27-2003, 08:13 AM

OK with me Starboy--------

At least let us come up with some kind of concensus for Gawd's sake.

Yellum Notnef · 05-27-2003, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
This thread has gotten way off topic.

I'm afraid you'll have to get used to that.

Some people simply can not resist the urge to post the same ridiculous nonsense again and again regardless of what the thread is about.

And then there are others who can not resist the urge to try and correct this ridiculous nonsense regardless of how futile it is.

You've probably already noticed a pattern.

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05-27-2003, 01:38 AM	#143
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	First, Radorth, I challenge you to a debate about evolution, about whether or not there is convincing evidence of descent with modification on a massive scale. Let's see you put up your dukes and give it your best shot. On Jesus Christ claiming that he had been God: Radorth: He was not, nor did he claim to be in the flesh. Even then, I think he pretty well knew what would occur, but not when. So you come on the side of the JC != God position, as opposed to the JC == God position? I'm impressed enough with a good God who can work miracles and has enough power to send me to hell. And who otherwise seems either impotent or in hiding -- or both. Your continued rhetorical use of the word "omnimax" is not nearly as impressive to me. Except that that's a convenient shorthand for what the theologians themselves say. You seem more interested in finding contradictions at this point in time, so I won't waste my time. As you know, we invariably find what we seek. Except that there are numerous counterexamples to this proposition. The point is that the "law is our schoolmaster" without which we would never know how far short we had fallen. Seems like self-pity. (on god programming us to be virtuous...) Well there you go. You mean like those Chrsitian "robots" you are so loathe to be like? Huh? Where did I ever claim that? I think that one can be perfectly virtuous and not be a zombie -- even if one had been programmed to be perfectly virtuous. Otherwise people in Heaven would be zombies, angels would be zombies, and god himself would be a zombie. (some absurd analogies deleted)

05-27-2003, 06:39 AM	#144
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	It appears that if someone has a tortured mind and the evidence of that state of mind is there for everyone to see you cannot point it out. That just doesn't sit right with me. Who does it serve when we tie our hands behind our backs by not allowing anyone to point out to Christians just how crazy and wacky they have become? No one. Starboy

05-27-2003, 06:47 AM	#145
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	On the one hand, Starboy, I understand your point, and I definitely agree that some Christians need to get a reality check sometimes. But on the other hand, Christians are USED to just about EVERY non-Christian telling them they're wacky and tortured and all that good stuff.

05-27-2003, 07:47 AM	#146
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	lpetrich First, Radorth, I challenge you to a debate about evolution, about whether or not there is convincing evidence of descent with modification on a massive scale. Let's see you put up your dukes and give it your best shot. Remember he did that once? He started a thread, made two more posts after that, and then quickly scurried away after claiming Hitler and Stalin used evolution to murder 50 million people.

05-27-2003, 07:57 AM	#147
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	This thread has gotten way off topic. Let me go back to one of my earlier questions that is at least a little on topic. We really need a good concensus opinion of what is a Fundy. I said previously that something we all should agree on is-------- THIS---- "Someone who believes that the Bible is inerrant in all ways, is the direct word of God and must be true in every sentence and in every word" (Actually that is a bit of a paraphrase of my previous defintion. -------because I forgot what I said last time and don't want to try and find it.) But does anyone at all disagree with this definition as a consensus opinion of the forum? If no responses -----------then I will assume my definition is a valid one. (Reality check here for those who have gone off onto different tangents.) And we will go from there.------------

05-27-2003, 08:12 AM	#148
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	Rational BAC, what about a person that thinks any part of the bible no matter how small is inerrant? Or any religious claim? Starboy

05-27-2003, 08:13 AM	#149
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	OK with me Starboy-------- At least let us come up with some kind of concensus for Gawd's sake.

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