Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-26-2003, 11:45 AM

In God We Trust...Canadians Aren't So Sure

Quote:

"America is a very religious, almost puritanical country," [Yan Martel] told Publishers Weekly last year. "In Canada, secularism is triumphant, and to talk noncynically, nonironically about religion is strange."

. . .
In Mr. Martel's city of Montreal, which is crowned by a giant illuminated cross atop Mount Royal, to commemorate the piety of its founder, Paul de Chomedy de Maisonneuve, church attendance is plummeting so fast that at least 18 churches in the last three years have been boarded up and abandoned or converted into condominiums and, in one case, even a pizza parlor. Meanwhile, rural churches are closing across the western prairies.

. . .
The Puritans who came to the New World in the 17th century as religious refugees never considered colonizing Canada's eastern coast, because it was French and Roman Catholic. They went instead to Massachusetts, where their ideas of having a predestined and godly obligation to transmit their ideals to the world deeply influenced the founders of the United States.

"Religious rhetoric has played an important role in sanctifying major American political actions beginning with the War of Independence," said Stephen A. Kent, a University of Alberta sociologist. Canada has never had a revolution or civil war or expansionist foreign policy, he noted, "so there was no need to sanctify major political events."

I would dispute the part about the Puritans transmitting the idea of a "godly obligation to transmit their ideals to the world" to the founding fathers, but otherwise this is an interesting and optimistic article.

happyboy · 03-26-2003, 12:04 PM

good. nice to see that canada is waking up.

a very delighted happyboy

Comquirk · 03-26-2003, 12:12 PM

I love my country.

Though Pierre Trudeau did manage to slip "God" into the CA1982, and a few MPs have mentioned that we should remove it.

The lack of religion in our politics might help explain why we're such a peaceful country, not seeing the need to go out on unwarrented crusades.

Godless Dave · 03-26-2003, 12:31 PM

sings

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our ... HEY!

If you Canucks can get God out of your national anthem and repeal that ridiculous gun-registry law I'll start filling out my application for permanent residency.

Comquirk · 03-26-2003, 02:00 PM

heheh, forgot about the mention in the national anthem. I always sing "We'll keep our land..." instead.

FoE · 03-26-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave

If you Canucks can get God out of your national anthem and repeal that ridiculous gun-registry law I'll start filling out my application for permanent residency.

I think you'd find god in the Constitution and the Anthem alot less annoying here since no one actually believes in it. I've never heard anyone claim that Canada was founded on Christainity for example, even though it probably was at least in name.

fishbulb · 03-26-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

FoE:

I think you'd find god in the Constitution and the Anthem alot less annoying here since no one actually believes in it. I've never heard anyone claim that Canada was founded on Christainity for example, even though it probably was at least in name.

I suspect that west of Winnipeg and east of the Rockies, there are a fair number of people who do believe that. And Stockwell Day. Don't forget that guy.

But you're right, most of it is pretty symbolic. Our constitution states that Canada is founded on the principle of the supremacy of God, and some public office oaths require swearing to God, but it's pretty ceremonial for the most part.

I also seem to remember that O Canada didn't have that "God keep our land" line in it until about 1980. I remember learning one version of the anthem and then being taught a new one sometime in the early 80's with the God line. But back then, they still taught the Easter and Christmas stories in elementary schools, and they recited the Lord's prayer every day until around 1985 or so.

Comquirk · 03-26-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FoE
I think you'd find god in the Constitution and the Anthem alot less annoying here since no one actually believes in it. I've never heard anyone claim that Canada was founded on Christainity for example, even though it probably was at least in name.

Nothing so mythic. Canada was founded on an Act passed by British Parliament in 1867.

Soyin Milka · 03-26-2003, 04:18 PM

Wow...

I'm a proud canadian, but I must say I had no idea there was a mention of God in our national anthem. They have it in the french version too:
Sous l'oeil de Dieu, pr�s du fleuve g�ant
Le Canadien grandit en esp�rant ;
Il est n� d'une race fi�re,
B�ni fut son berceau.
Le ciel a marqu� sa carri�re
Dans ce monde nouveau.
Toujours guid� par sa lumi�re
Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau,
il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau...

Peh. Twenty years and I still don't know my country's own national anthem in either language. I'm not even ashamed. It's probably a symptom of what being canadian mean.

I think most canadians value their country and its ideals more than symbols (Like the anthem or the flag). It just doesn't compute in my head that in the "Land of the Free" (America I think) some people want a law against flag burning. I think most canadians would agree to say symbols are just an arbitrary representation of an idea deserving way way much less protection than the ideas they represent.

It's rare to hear canadian politicians invoke God, and when they do it usually stays around to torment them for a long time. For exemple:

"If the people have not suffered enough, it is their God-given right to suffer some more." ~ William Aberhart, former Alberta premier.

Soyin

Emmanuel Goldstein · 03-26-2003, 05:16 PM

Here in Alberta the Catholic church has imbedded itself into the constitution. You can have your property tax money go to support Catholic schools.

I hear that Canada was founded upon Christian principles all the time. It's a lot harder to argue against it when it's right in the bill of rights.

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03-26-2003, 12:04 PM	#2
happyboy Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: on the border between here and there, WV Posts: 373	good. nice to see that canada is waking up. a very delighted happyboy

03-26-2003, 12:12 PM	#3
Comquirk Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Truro, NS/Fredericton, NB Canada Posts: 274	I love my country. Though Pierre Trudeau did manage to slip "God" into the CA1982, and a few MPs have mentioned that we should remove it. The lack of religion in our politics might help explain why we're such a peaceful country, not seeing the need to go out on unwarrented crusades.

03-26-2003, 12:31 PM	#4
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	sings O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. God keep our ... HEY! If you Canucks can get God out of your national anthem and repeal that ridiculous gun-registry law I'll start filling out my application for permanent residency.

03-26-2003, 02:00 PM	#5
Comquirk Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Truro, NS/Fredericton, NB Canada Posts: 274	heheh, forgot about the mention in the national anthem. I always sing "We'll keep our land..." instead.

03-26-2003, 04:18 PM	#9
Soyin Milka Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Absurdistan Posts: 299	Wow... I'm a proud canadian, but I must say I had no idea there was a mention of God in our national anthem. They have it in the french version too: Sous l'oeil de Dieu, pr�s du fleuve g�ant Le Canadien grandit en esp�rant ; Il est n� d'une race fi�re, B�ni fut son berceau. Le ciel a marqu� sa carri�re Dans ce monde nouveau. Toujours guid� par sa lumi�re Il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau, il gardera l'honneur de son drapeau... Peh. Twenty years and I still don't know my country's own national anthem in either language. I'm not even ashamed. It's probably a symptom of what being canadian mean. I think most canadians value their country and its ideals more than symbols (Like the anthem or the flag). It just doesn't compute in my head that in the "Land of the Free" (America I think) some people want a law against flag burning. I think most canadians would agree to say symbols are just an arbitrary representation of an idea deserving way way much less protection than the ideas they represent. It's rare to hear canadian politicians invoke God, and when they do it usually stays around to torment them for a long time. For exemple: "If the people have not suffered enough, it is their God-given right to suffer some more." ~ William Aberhart, former Alberta premier. Soyin

03-26-2003, 05:16 PM	#10
Emmanuel Goldstein Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 17	Here in Alberta the Catholic church has imbedded itself into the constitution. You can have your property tax money go to support Catholic schools. I hear that Canada was founded upon Christian principles all the time. It's a lot harder to argue against it when it's right in the bill of rights.

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