Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Brian K. · 03-10-2002, 07:32 AM

What are your veiws on whether or not the phrase "In God We Trust", which is seen on almost every peice of currency that is used in this nation, is a violation of Seperation of Church and State.

crazyfingers · 03-10-2002, 10:08 AM

I do regard it as unconstitutional and one more example of how some xians feel that it's their duty so rub their stupid religon in everyones face.

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000237" target="_blank">Still Correcting My Currency </a>

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000185" target="_blank">Defacing Monery </a>

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000417" target="_blank">Legally negate "God" from U.S. coins </a>

03-10-2002, 10:29 AM

Well of course it's a violation of the separation of church and state. It's a blatent violation. Unfortunately, the courts don't agree.

I hope that we might someday have a progressive majority on the Supreme Court willing to repair the wall of separation, but that's probably decades in the future.

Until then we'll just have to keep on correcting our currency with permanent black ink.

Brian K. · 03-10-2002, 11:06 AM

Speaking of the U.S. court system, the also violate the laws of Seperation of C/S. When you are called to the stand, you are "Sworn In", and asked to tell the truth so help you God. I don't scratch out the phrase "In God We Trust" because every other peice has it on them. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

crazyfingers · 03-10-2002, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian K.:
<strong>Speaking of the U.S. court system, the also violate the laws of Seperation of C/S. When you are called to the stand, you are "Sworn In", and asked to tell the truth so help you God. I don't scratch out the phrase "In God We Trust" because every other peice has it on them. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> </strong>

I believe that the "So help you god part" is not always used. In my opinion it shouldn't be used. But, no one as to say it. They can say "I afrirm". But to be placed in such a position can be prejudicial even though it shouldn't be.

Vorkosigan · 03-10-2002, 01:36 PM

Many states have dropped SHMG from their oaths. Other violations remain, for example, in 8 or 9 states you can't be an official without believe in god.

Michael

03-10-2002, 02:04 PM

Some of the state constitutions are really bizarre with regards to church/state stuff. Texas' constitution, for example, says that there shall be no religious test to hold office or serve on a jury, but you MUST acknowledge a "supreme being" and a "future state of rewards and punishments." Go figure.

Brian K. · 03-10-2002, 07:44 PM

You know, I'm not the kind of Atheist to whine everytime I have to hear some person preach their love for God. Or even when I say that the nation I believe so very much in is "One nation under God" everyday at school. Not when I carry coins and bills in my pocket that state "In God we trust". Or even when I am sworn in at court as to "tell the truth so help me God". I really do think these beleifs are here for a reason. But for people to argue that they are of a minority. I am part of "THE" universal minority. 90% of the world's population believes in some form of a higher entity or such. The other 10% are Atheists or Agnostics ect. I would like to see changes in America as far as the whole God deal goes, but after this conversation life must go on. It seems contradictive to establish laws that seperate America's church and state and only apply them to certain aspects. This erks my nerves but the world still turns. So what will become of our nation. Some say that only God knows.

Maleficus · 03-11-2002, 01:00 PM

Well, you just have to say the Pledge of Allegance, I go to a Baptist school where I'm forced to pray like 4 times a day, Bible study is a manditory class, and, since it's Baptist, I can't even take playing cards and hustle these Jesus freaks out of their money in Blackjack.

I did "correct" my bills, and it should prove interesting, some have wondered what they'd think when corrected bills got into the collection plate, well that's a daily thing for me.

This is a learning experience though, I get to learn just how much of a lunatic Jesus really was (hmph, talking to clouds, anyone talking to clouds today would be put in the looney bin).

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Maleficus ]</p>

Jamie_L · 03-12-2002, 05:37 AM

IGWT - absolutely a violation of c/s separation. Not one the gives me a lot of heartache on money, but if I had my way, it would be gone.

IGWT on plaques in schools, however... THAT gives me a lot of heartache.

As for swearing in - in Maryland I discovered that has gone away. I recently gave a deposition, and was expecting to hear the "so help me, God" part, but it wasn't there. That was a pleasant surprise.

Jamie

03-10-2002, 07:32 AM	#1
Brian K. Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia Posts: 50	"In God We Trust"-Violation of C/S Seperation? What are your veiws on whether or not the phrase "In God We Trust", which is seen on almost every peice of currency that is used in this nation, is a violation of Seperation of Church and State.

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03-10-2002, 10:08 AM	#2
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	I do regard it as unconstitutional and one more example of how some xians feel that it's their duty so rub their stupid religon in everyones face. <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000237" target="_blank">Still Correcting My Currency </a> <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000185" target="_blank">Defacing Monery </a> <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000417" target="_blank">Legally negate "God" from U.S. coins </a>

03-10-2002, 10:29 AM	#3
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	Well of course it's a violation of the separation of church and state. It's a blatent violation. Unfortunately, the courts don't agree. I hope that we might someday have a progressive majority on the Supreme Court willing to repair the wall of separation, but that's probably decades in the future. Until then we'll just have to keep on correcting our currency with permanent black ink.

03-10-2002, 11:06 AM	#4
Brian K. Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia Posts: 50	Speaking of the U.S. court system, the also violate the laws of Seperation of C/S. When you are called to the stand, you are "Sworn In", and asked to tell the truth so help you God. I don't scratch out the phrase "In God We Trust" because every other peice has it on them. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

03-10-2002, 01:36 PM	#6
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Many states have dropped SHMG from their oaths. Other violations remain, for example, in 8 or 9 states you can't be an official without believe in god. Michael

03-10-2002, 02:04 PM	#7
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	Some of the state constitutions are really bizarre with regards to church/state stuff. Texas' constitution, for example, says that there shall be no religious test to hold office or serve on a jury, but you MUST acknowledge a "supreme being" and a "future state of rewards and punishments." Go figure.

03-10-2002, 07:44 PM	#8
Brian K. Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia Posts: 50	You know, I'm not the kind of Atheist to whine everytime I have to hear some person preach their love for God. Or even when I say that the nation I believe so very much in is "One nation under God" everyday at school. Not when I carry coins and bills in my pocket that state "In God we trust". Or even when I am sworn in at court as to "tell the truth so help me God". I really do think these beleifs are here for a reason. But for people to argue that they are of a minority. I am part of "THE" universal minority. 90% of the world's population believes in some form of a higher entity or such. The other 10% are Atheists or Agnostics ect. I would like to see changes in America as far as the whole God deal goes, but after this conversation life must go on. It seems contradictive to establish laws that seperate America's church and state and only apply them to certain aspects. This erks my nerves but the world still turns. So what will become of our nation. Some say that only God knows.

03-11-2002, 01:00 PM	#9
Maleficus Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Arkansas(Born in Texas, and damn proud of it!) Posts: 149	Well, you just have to say the Pledge of Allegance, I go to a Baptist school where I'm forced to pray like 4 times a day, Bible study is a manditory class, and, since it's Baptist, I can't even take playing cards and hustle these Jesus freaks out of their money in Blackjack. I did "correct" my bills, and it should prove interesting, some have wondered what they'd think when corrected bills got into the collection plate, well that's a daily thing for me. This is a learning experience though, I get to learn just how much of a lunatic Jesus really was (hmph, talking to clouds, anyone talking to clouds today would be put in the looney bin). [ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Maleficus ]</p>

03-12-2002, 05:37 AM	#10
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	IGWT - absolutely a violation of c/s separation. Not one the gives me a lot of heartache on money, but if I had my way, it would be gone. IGWT on plaques in schools, however... THAT gives me a lot of heartache. As for swearing in - in Maryland I discovered that has gone away. I recently gave a deposition, and was expecting to hear the "so help me, God" part, but it wasn't there. That was a pleasant surprise. Jamie

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