ax

I wonder what the "unforgivable sin" is. And how it adds up to the "ALL forgiving god" aspect.
Here's a link to a site where I posed it to some xians.(Hope you understand the context of link mods).
<a href="http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=7" target="_blank">Apolagetics</a>
What are your views on it people? (athiest and theist).

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: ax ]</p>

ExTheist

I would conisder it sinful to spend good time debating that kind of meaningless minutia.

ax

shut or I'll hit you.
But seriously... does it go against the fundamental rule of an "all loving and forgiving" god?

agapeo

This is an excellent question! The answer to which has spanned the spectrum of absurdity to interesting. I’ll attempt to give an answer (being a theist) that I once heard and let you decide where in the spectrum the explanation lies. Unfortunately, I haven’t the time or the inclination to debate the issue here and now. I simply submit the following explanation as a candidate for consideration.

So, regarding the subject of the unforgivable sin, also called the sin against the Holy Spirit or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, Genesis has the foundational Scripture which points to what it involves.

Genesis 3:15:
And I [God] will put enmity between thee [serpent, devil] and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it [the woman's seed] shall bruise thy head, and thou [devil's seed] shalt bruise his heel.

Seed is necessary in order to beget children, in order to bear fruit. A child cannot be born physically without seed first being planted in the mother's womb. Once this seed is planted, the resulting fruit cannot be altered. You are the result of the seed of your earthly father as long as you live. But Genesis 3:15 speaks of a woman having seed. What is "her seed"? Galatians 3:16 clarifies "her seed" in saying, ". . . And to thy seed, which is Christ."

So it is spiritually. In order to be born spiritually (aka "being born again"), seed must be planted. A spiritual seed cannot be changed any more than a physical seed can be changed.

The Bible speaks of two spiritual fathers and, therefore, two possible sources for seed: God, the Father of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and the devil, the god of this world. Thus a person can spiritually be born of either one of these two fathers. To observe the result of either of these two spiritual seeds being planted in man, here’s a hypothetical case -- John Doe.

When John Doe confesses with his mouth Jesus as Lord and believes that God raised Him from the dead (according to the command of Romans 10:9 and 10), he is born again with God's seed (Christ) in him. God's seed (Christ) is spirit, thus John Doe has the “spirit of Christ” in him -- spirit which is eternal and which is life.

However, there is another possibility. Rather than confessing Jesus as his Lord, John Doe could believe that the devil is the true God. John Doe, confessing the devil with his mouth and accepting the devil as his lord, is born again. This spiritual seed, which is born within, is the seed of the devil. Once John Doe is born of the devil's seed, he can never rid himself of it for this seed, like all seed, is permanent. This acceptance of the devil as lord is the unforgivable sin -- it can never be rooted out.

It is possible for a man to go through life and never be born again of either seed. A person does not always make a choice. But if he does, he has only two alternatives. A man can either accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior or he can accept the devil as his lord. There is a complete separation between the households of the two gods. They are opposite forces and antithetical essences. Once one of these gods is accepted, nothing can be done to eradicate the seed or to change the consequences. The seed and its inherent qualities are permanent.

Thus the “unforgivable sin” pertains to “seed” implanted in the individual, which is as permanent as the “seed” of your biological father. The “seed of Christ” is permanent in the person who has at some point in life confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and the “seed of the serpent (the Devil)” is likewise permanent. Just as there is nothing you can do to change who your biological father is neither can one change who they’ve chosen to be their “spiritual” father.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

agapeo

That could be true but . . . Would it be "unforgivable"?

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: agapeo ]</p>

Bree

I'm confused.

I thought that the Bible said that all sins are the same (don't ask for a reference, my Bibles are tucked away somewhere, and I don't remember where they are ). That's also an argument used by Christians when discussion homosexuality, et cetera - "gay sex is, in God's eyes, the same as murder, but God is good and forgives all sin."

Huh?

RJS

Matthew 12: 22-32, especially 31 which states....

"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven"

DigitalDruid

What is difference bewteen plain-vanilla blasphemy and blasphemy against the spirit? Can you give examples?

RJS

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is limited to attributing works to Satan those that are from the Spirit. Similar (or exactly) like the Pharisees did in the passage.

HelenM

In my experience, Christians teach that the unforgivable sin amounts to refusing to receive God's forgiveness.

Suppose some people fell down a hole and were all rescued but one. And you might ask - what did that one guy do that he couldn't be rescued? What made him unrescuable? Well, it could be that he had done something so the rescuers refused to rescue him. But it could also be that they threw down a rope and he refused to hold onto it and be pulled out. The latter is more like what the 'unforgivable sin' is than the former. I.e. refusing to receive forgiveness rather than doing something that would cause God not to offer it to you.

The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in the Bible refers to when the Pharisees saw what Jesus did and attributed the power by which he did it, to the devil rather than to God (to the Holy Spirit). If they were right, then Jesus wasn't God or even from God and so by implication the Pharisees had denied what they'd need to believe to have their sins forgiven.

take care
Helen