Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GeoTheo · 07-22-2002, 12:08 PM

More or less convinced of human evolution I came across the following paralell:
One evolutionary penalty for our huge brains is pain in childbirth ( as well as others such as actually being born too early and spending the first year outside the womb behaving like an embryo still)
A judgement for eating of the tree of "knowledge"
is Pain in child birth.
Also I find some thinks that relate to self awareness "nakedness" that occur after eating from the tree.
Hmmmm.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]

scombrid · 07-22-2002, 12:20 PM

Quote:

...such as actually being born too early and spending the first year outside the womb behaving like an embryo still

Kangaroos must be really smart then.

GeoTheo · 07-22-2002, 12:33 PM

Well actually, the being born to soon idea is from
Richard Leakey. There is a correlation between the length of gestation period in mammals and brain size. If humans kept up with the trend women would carry for 21 months instead of nine. But that would require a pelvis so big that it would not be conducive to bipedalism.

Coragyps · 07-22-2002, 01:09 PM

Didn't Queen do a song about this?

Starboy · 07-22-2002, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
More or less convinced of human evolution I came across the following paralell:
One evolutionary penalty for our huge brains is pain in childbirth ( as well as others such as actually being born too early and spending the first year outside the womb behaving like an embryo still)
A judgement for eating of the tree of "knowledge"
is Pain in child birth.
Also I find some thinks that relate to self awareness "nakedness" that occur after eating from the tree.
Hmmmm.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]

Hello GeoTheo,

I sense your struggle. It seems that you now have a better understanding of evolution as a theory and you are learning about the myriad ways in which it can be applied. Yet I can see that you have the need to relate it to your core Christian beliefs. Perhaps you haven�t had a chance to think everything through, but I am curious. Do you see Christianity and the Bible in particular as a complete theory of the physical universe? Would you have a problem with using evolution maybe not as the �truth� but as a useful tool for understanding how organisms came to be even though it may conflict with your core beliefs? Or do you have the need to somehow merge science and religion together? Please accept these questions in the spirit they were intended, as an honest attempt to understand the mind of a Christian.

Starboy

Peregrine · 07-23-2002, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
WThere is a correlation between the length of gestation period in mammals and brain size.

One must remember that correlation does not represent cause and effect. There are a number of evolutionary reasons for "early child birth." Since the human child has insufficient locomotion for defense, it became necessary for early humans to form social ties in order to protect the offspring. These social ties are considered one of the contributors to intelligence. So maybe we have big brains because we have "early child birth."

Bubba · 07-23-2002, 05:43 PM

I'd had the same basic thought about Genesis, GeoTheo.

Compared to how well most other animals are prepared for life, It does seem that we are born too soon...

But that's just my observation. And I'm and electrician, not a biologist...

Bubba

Doubting Didymus · 07-23-2002, 06:04 PM

There are a few of these parralells, actually. My favourite is the whole 'man moulded from clay' story, as paralelled with the Abiogenesis theory that layer flaking clay crystals could be subject to natural selection as well as mutation. This could make them a possible precurser to life on earth.

However, these paralells are most likely a coincidence, and I have no doubt that you'd find just as many in the Koran or Australian dreamtime mythology.

mattmattmattmattv · 07-24-2002, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
There is a correlation between the length of gestation period in mammals and brain size. If humans kept up with the trend women would carry for 21 months instead of nine. But that would require a pelvis so big that it would not be conducive to bipedalism.

Not to mention that no males would do a female with a pelvis that big.

Jack the Bodiless · 07-24-2002, 12:54 AM

If creationists try to use this as a serious argument, they'd be implying that the Fruit was literally brain-expanding, and that God designed us to be stupid.

Maybe that's why so many of them appear to be self-lobotomized?

07-22-2002, 12:08 PM	#1
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	paralell that may be of interest to Christian evolutionists More or less convinced of human evolution I came across the following paralell: One evolutionary penalty for our huge brains is pain in childbirth ( as well as others such as actually being born too early and spending the first year outside the womb behaving like an embryo still) A judgement for eating of the tree of "knowledge" is Pain in child birth. Also I find some thinks that relate to self awareness "nakedness" that occur after eating from the tree. Hmmmm. [ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]</p>

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07-22-2002, 12:33 PM	#3
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Well actually, the being born to soon idea is from Richard Leakey. There is a correlation between the length of gestation period in mammals and brain size. If humans kept up with the trend women would carry for 21 months instead of nine. But that would require a pelvis so big that it would not be conducive to bipedalism.

07-22-2002, 01:09 PM	#4
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Didn't Queen do a song about this?

07-23-2002, 05:43 PM	#7
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	I'd had the same basic thought about Genesis, GeoTheo. Compared to how well most other animals are prepared for life, It does seem that we are born too soon... But that's just my observation. And I'm and electrician, not a biologist... Bubba

07-23-2002, 06:04 PM	#8
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	There are a few of these parralells, actually. My favourite is the whole 'man moulded from clay' story, as paralelled with the Abiogenesis theory that layer flaking clay crystals could be subject to natural selection as well as mutation. This could make them a possible precurser to life on earth. However, these paralells are most likely a coincidence, and I have no doubt that you'd find just as many in the Koran or Australian dreamtime mythology.

07-24-2002, 12:54 AM	#10
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	If creationists try to use this as a serious argument, they'd be implying that the Fruit was literally brain-expanding, and that God designed us to be stupid. Maybe that's why so many of them appear to be self-lobotomized?

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