GPLindsey

I'm an atheist, but one issue regarding evolution has bothered me over the years. I cannot find a satisfactory explanation as to why humans have developed so much intellectual capacity and abilities above and beyond what was needed to adapt and "be the fittest" in their environment. If humans had remained simple hunter-gathers, we still would have been a great evolutionary success. So why did Nature keep going? Why music (Bach's my favorite--so what if it is church music!), architecture, art, Euclidic geometry? Taking the flip side, why did sadism develop in humans--a trait so seemingly unrelated to any quality that would be needed to adapt to one's environment? A theist might argue that these problems are evidence that a God (and Satan)did touch the human race in a special way, but I don't want to buy that. This web site is populated with much greater minds than mind, so I look forward to some enlightenment!

mac_philo

I'll leave the nitty gritty scientific answers to the biologists.

1)Remember, humans are not just the sum of their genetic heritage.

2)As I heard Dennett say, "If you think natural selection can design a Raven, but not provide for an ode to a Raven; well, you don't know how miraculous ravens are!"

Synaesthesia

As Marvin Minsky is fond of pointing out, the problem that we face is not so much to explain the brilliant achievments of brilliant minds, but how a three year old builds a block tower. The gap between being able to maintain a relationship with a group of a few people and coming up with Godel's theorem is literally negligable compared to the gap between brownian motion and socialization.

Godless Dave

Humans capable of greater intellectual feats are still more competetive than hunter-gatherers. In fact, isn't that why we out-competed the Neanderthals, because we're smarter? I don't know what specific advantage music gives us in the survival contest, but it could be part of the broad range of communication that lets us build huge societies. Remember, nature isn't trying to do anything.

edit: typos that look like Bushisms

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]</p>

DRFseven

Yes, easily; however, it can't explain "The Pina Colada Song." Sorry; couldn't resist.

Actually, this is a great question. The title was a little off-putting, because it looked like the standard theist question where they can't believe plain old science could explain something "wondrous" and "miraculous". This is what I think: I think that the extra-smart ape niche was so small that we wouldn't have survived without big changes. There is a theory that weather causes population bottlenecks and bottlenecks cause intelligence; of course I don't know what happened, but something did and culture happened. Now, we didn't need to get as smart as we got, but once our behavior became culturally-based, it took off on its own. And then we became so smart, we created a totally unique niche for ourselves, one where we create our own environment whereever we go.

There is still a lot we don't know about sadism. It may have adaptive roots because it seems to be triggered, though there may be a genetic predisposition to it.

Vorkosigan

Actually, of the human intellectual capabilities, human love of music is one of the most mysterious and difficult to explain. Explanations are in the working phase still.

As for an answer, I won't even guess.

In any case, you're not obligated to supply answers that don't yet exist.

Michael

Automaton

Many other animals seem to enjoy music as well, although obviously not on the level of human appeciation. The answer is probably something so unbelievably obvious that everyone will slap themselves in the forehead for not thinking of it first (eg., Darwin's theory of evolution).

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Automaton ]</p>

Christopher Lord

If you've ever sat around the camp fire listening to someone who knows how to play some insturment really well, you know why we like music.

Its a tool for society building.


Edited to add: Also, note most tribes use music for religion and/or meetings. these things help to bind a group of people. Would as many people go to church if it where not for the chance to sing/listen to music with many friends?

Its sad to see what music has been perverted into these days... makes me want to take up an insturment.

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Christopher Lord ]</p>

Typhon

Human social traits, such as love, loyalty, affection, hate, and yes, sadism, are by no means apparently unique to our species. More than a few of the many other species of primates, also display such traits.

I would recommend any good case study on the behavior of savannah baboons for example. These patterns of behavior are not only evident, but can be charted to suggest/show/suspected of either competitive advantages, or naturally occurring trade-offs and/or by-products, of the complexity of such socially dependent societies/species.

Music, art, and other traits that are common to our own culture may be harder to trace. I for one am not convinced that some degree of appreciation for these do not exist in other species. Even if we were unique in this, I think it doesn't prove any source of unfathomable complexity. It is a mistake to think that every trait that we possess has to serve an "evolutionary need." This is not how selection works of course, and our ability to produce complex classical music, isn't necessarily why we developed the cognitive and highly complex abilities of our large brains.

.T.

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Typhon ]</p>

Jubal

Pink Floyd! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Someone has beaten me already to the axis of my answer, that "music is a tool for society building." I'd like to add, if I may, that music can act on people as a kind of hypnosis: a particular song may put a group of people in this or that frame of mind, which is why music is so effective as a tool for bringing societies together. Bach (Pink Floyd! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> ) is little more than a sophisticated representation of our recognition of music's power to develop a common psychological atmosphere; crafting an effective melody is merely a matter of having a subjective/intuitive understanding of the human psyche and being able to see the connections between note, timing, and mood.

I hope that made sense .

[ April 09, 2002: Message edited by: Swan-eater ]</p>