Peter P.

This one is for the theists out there: Do you view God as timeless, that God exists outside of time (he is in 1997 and 103 at the same time) or that he is everlasting, that God is in time, but he exists forever, and has done so for forever?

Amos

"he is in 1997 and 103 at the same time" This proves that God is inside of time. Timeless means outside of time and inside the eternal moment.

God is outside of time and outside of space.

Theli

But if he does something, like throw a lightning bolt on a sinner... Does that happen in 1997 or 103?
And if he does something doesn't the previous "eternal moment" seize?
What is a "moment"?

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

rainbow walking

rw: Hi Peter,
Just curious. Do you consider time and space to be features of reality that could somehow have a detrimental effect on God depending on His supposed "position" in relation to them? If so, why?

And, while I'm thinking about it, is there some reason why God would not want to expose Himself to detrimental conditions?

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: rainbow walking ]</p>

Theli

If god can choose a certain time or moment to act inside our "reality" then time must exist for him also. Or else he's act would never had happened.

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Theli ]</p>

rainbow walking

rw: Conceded. Now is that detrimental to God and if so, how?

Theli, have you ever plucked a smooth stone from the bottom of a flowing stream? Did the flowing water affect your objective or your person in any way? Did it affect the bottom of the stream?

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: rainbow walking ]</p>

Theli

"Detrimental"?
How can I think something can be detrimental for a being I don't even think exists?

Weak! This example has nothing at all to do with time. I am not eternal.


I have another one for you.
If you were "god" and had created a world with it's own time. While time does not exist where you exists. How can you interfer in your creation?
Since there is no time where you exist there isn't any time between your creations creation and destruction. And therefore you can't interfer in it. No matter how omnipotence and allpowerful you are you can't do anything to it, since the duration of it's existance from your point of view is 0.

tronvillain

rainbow walking:
While not really on topic, I think that the answer to all of those questions would be "yes." Anyway, does God operate on some kind of meta-time?

Theli

Well... I don't really know what you mean by "Meta-time". But if he existed in any "time" at all, that time must have had a start. Wich would mean that he would have to have a point of creation.

CodeMason

There are innumerable threads on this already, but I'll add some input.

Theli is right. If God wants to act at a specific point within our spacetime, there must be a state of God that is "action". God must change between this and "non-action". Otherwise, the event would proceed back and forward in time infinitely. But without time there is no change. So a timeless God cannot act in our spacetime.

"Meta-time" is meaningless. Anyway, time cannot exist without space, just as space can't exist without time. If God exists in some kind of alternate realm of time (which seems nonsensical if you think of it relative to our time) then he must exist in an alternate realm of space as well. But this scenario brings up serious doubts about his infinitude.