Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rima · 07-08-2003, 08:02 AM

after they committed the first (original sin) , after they ate from the tree , God had punished Adam , Eve and all their descendent. (us)

1.the first punishment is : abolishment from the garden of eden :

Genesis 3:23

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

2.the delivery pain was a punishment for Eve , and all women:

Genesis 3:16

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

3.even the serpent was punished by going on its belly and eating dust:

Genesis 3:14

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

4.Adam (the man) of course was punished by working hard for living

Genesis 3:17

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

then after some millions of years God had changed his mind ,he has forgiven Humans for their sins , by sending his own and only son (i.e.himself) to pay off all our sins , to rid us of Adam`s first sin , and as a pay off he gave his only son (i.e.himself) to die on cross

the question is: if that is so why are all these punishments still in effect , in other words:

1.why do women still have delivery pain
2.why are humans still working hard for a living
3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust

where is God`s justice , if He had already paid off our sins (by giving his son ) why is he still charging his creatures , why didn`t He free women from pain , the man from working hard and the serpent from going on its belly and eating dust ??

why is He double charging ?

Rhaedas · 07-08-2003, 08:29 AM

1.why do women still have delivery pain

I'm not a woman, but I'd vote for a Caesarian myself everytime if I was...it hurts because big things are going through normally smaller places.

2.why are humans still working hard for a living

You don't get something for nothing?

3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust

Lack of legs perhaps? Actually there are benefits to being legless, otherwise snakes wouldn't have evolved. And I've never seen a snake eat dust...usually it's rodents, frogs, or insects.

where is God`s justice

Probably as absent as he is.

A more christian answer would probably be something on the order of not being able to fully comprehend god's whole plan for us.

Mageth · 07-08-2003, 08:58 AM

3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust

Minor quibble...serpents (snakes) do not, and never have, eaten dust.

Rima · 07-08-2003, 09:02 AM

I agree

smugg · 07-08-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust

Minor quibble...serpents (snakes) do not, and never have, eaten dust.

Semantic point...we all eat dust.

Jeremiah · 07-08-2003, 06:43 PM

Romans 8

The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[9] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

07-08-2003, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smugg
Semantic point...we all eat dust.

True, but not all of us slither and crawl to avoid it.

Darth Dane · 07-09-2003, 12:16 AM

How did teh snake move before this punishment?

Flew?

Walked?

DD - Love & Laughter

Diotima · 07-09-2003, 12:16 AM

Rima

I am new to this forum, so you will have to bear with me.

So, correct me if I am wrong.

If you make such questions I must presume that you take the Gospel literally.

Doctor X · 07-09-2003, 12:21 AM

Not Gospel . . . Torah!

--J. "Oye!" D.

07-08-2003, 08:02 AM	#1
Rima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 90	the "original sin" was paid off , but twice: after they committed the first (original sin) , after they ate from the tree , God had punished Adam , Eve and all their descendent. (us) 1.the first punishment is : abolishment from the garden of eden : Genesis 3:23 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 2.the delivery pain was a punishment for Eve , and all women: Genesis 3:16 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 3.even the serpent was punished by going on its belly and eating dust: Genesis 3:14 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life 4.Adam (the man) of course was punished by working hard for living Genesis 3:17 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; then after some millions of years God had changed his mind ,he has forgiven Humans for their sins , by sending his own and only son (i.e.himself) to pay off all our sins , to rid us of Adam`s first sin , and as a pay off he gave his only son (i.e.himself) to die on cross the question is: if that is so why are all these punishments still in effect , in other words: 1.why do women still have delivery pain 2.why are humans still working hard for a living 3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust where is God`s justice , if He had already paid off our sins (by giving his son ) why is he still charging his creatures , why didn`t He free women from pain , the man from working hard and the serpent from going on its belly and eating dust ?? why is He double charging ?

07-08-2003, 08:29 AM	#2
Rhaedas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,440	Re: the "original sin" was paid off , but twice: 1.why do women still have delivery pain I'm not a woman, but I'd vote for a Caesarian myself everytime if I was...it hurts because big things are going through normally smaller places. 2.why are humans still working hard for a living You don't get something for nothing? 3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust Lack of legs perhaps? Actually there are benefits to being legless, otherwise snakes wouldn't have evolved. And I've never seen a snake eat dust...usually it's rodents, frogs, or insects. where is God`s justice Probably as absent as he is. A more christian answer would probably be something on the order of not being able to fully comprehend god's whole plan for us.

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07-08-2003, 08:58 AM	#3
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	3.and finaly why do serpents still slither on their bellies and still eat dust Minor quibble...serpents (snakes) do not, and never have, eaten dust.

07-08-2003, 09:02 AM	#4
Rima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 90	I agree

07-08-2003, 06:43 PM	#6
Jeremiah Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 16	Romans 8 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[9] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

07-09-2003, 12:16 AM	#8
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	How did teh snake move before this punishment? Flew? Walked? DD - Love & Laughter

07-09-2003, 12:16 AM	#9
Diotima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 49	Rima I am new to this forum, so you will have to bear with me. So, correct me if I am wrong. If you make such questions I must presume that you take the Gospel literally.

07-09-2003, 12:21 AM	#10
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Not Gospel . . . Torah! --J. "Oye!" D.

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