Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 04-05-2002, 04:12 PM

This story was not what it appeared to be at first. It turns out that the Leg is worried that freedom of religion means freedom to worship the devil. And they're right.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Florida-School-Dispute.html" target="_blank">Fla. Lawmakers Dispute Religion Code</a>

Quote:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- A special legislative session called by Gov. Jeb Bush to pass a sweeping education measure ended in chaos Friday over a provision allowing students to pray and speak about religion in schools.

....

The fight erupted in the Senate, which refused for the second time in two weeks to pass the school code rewrite bill because of the religion provision.

"It's one page out of an 1,800-page document," said the Republican governor, who supports the provision.

Senate Democrats opposed the provision and some Senate Republicans jumped on the bandwagon.

"The opposition spread like wildfire," said Senate President John McKay, a Republican. "It was almost spontaneous combustion."

....

The religion provision would give students the right to pray, express their religious believes in homework, distribute religious literature and speak to other students about religion.

Those are constitutional rights students already enjoy. The provision is based on guidelines that the American Jewish Congress, the American Civil Liberties Union and the Anti-Defamation League have prepared to help school administrators across the country understand what courts have said can be done in schools.

"Today's debate was not over new language -- (the bill) did not change anything for Florida's schools, and it conforms completely to existing federal or state statues and court decisions," Bush said.

But several senators were worried about the impact of the language in state law.

"We could have the church of devil worship or we could have the church of witchcraft or we could have the church of the Taliban," warned Sen. Ginny Brown-Waite, a Republican.

Zimyatin · 04-05-2002, 04:22 PM

This just highlights christian hypocrisy.

MacPrince · 04-05-2002, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Quoth Zimyatin: This just highlights christian hypocrisy.

Ignorance, too:

Quote:

From the article: "We could have the church of devil worship or we could have the church of witchcraft or we could have the church of the Taliban," warned Sen. Ginny Brown-Waite, a Republican.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: MacPrince ]

Grumpy · 04-06-2002, 02:22 PM

This is so funny, that I just had to... say how funny it was.

delhurgo · 04-06-2002, 03:15 PM

This doesn't just show the hypocrisy of christian republicans (excluding Jeb, amazingly), it also shows how ignorant some democrats are about this issue as well. Many dems, in Fla anyhow, seem to think that its up to the govt, cause of the 1st amend, to repress all expression of religion in public schools. They think that thats what the Supreme Court has ruled. But this isnt the case at all, as explained in the Aclu guidelines in the piece. This mistaken belief is why this issue is so effective for religious conservatives. Both parties have the american people believing that students rights are being suppressed. People are for "school prayer" overwhelmingly because they believe it is now against the law. Apparently, some dems, who knows how many, believe the same thing - and actually agree that it should be!. Its good to see the Aclu and others are trying to educate pols about this. If the American people would realise that students are free to pray and express their religious beliefs in school, this issue would go away.

Zimyatin · 04-06-2002, 09:15 PM

Delhurgo, I couldn't agree with you more. Of course children are free to exercise their religious beliefs in school. As a member of the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, I sacrificed many an animal in the classroom - so long as I didn't disturb the other children. Some of the brats claim that my freely exercising my religion was "coercive." They did not have to watch and they could leave the classroom.

[edited because I have not sacrificed enough animals to help with my grammer]

[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Zimyatin ]

Coragyps · 04-07-2002, 01:48 PM

Does anyone have a link to the ACLU, etc., guidelines? I almost feel a Letter to the Editor of our local paper coming on.....

St. Paul MN Atheist · 04-07-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coragyps:
Does anyone have a link to the ACLU, etc., guidelines? I almost feel a Letter to the Editor of our local paper coming on.....

The ACLU has guidelines for religion in public schools at the following link.

<a href="http://www.aclu.org/issues/religion/relig7.html" target="_blank">http://www.aclu.org/issues/religion/relig7.html</A>

David

delhurgo · 04-08-2002, 09:30 AM

Zim, I hear ya dude. I use to smoke peyote and drink altar wine during class. But they put a stop to that too. Brats! Big gov't bastards! Stop repressing us!!!!

[edited for mistakes from being drunk and high]

[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: delhurgo ]

Coragyps · 04-08-2002, 10:07 AM

David - thanks for the link!

04-06-2002, 09:15 PM	#6
Zimyatin Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 308	Delhurgo, I couldn't agree with you more. Of course children are free to exercise their religious beliefs in school. As a member of the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, I sacrificed many an animal in the classroom - so long as I didn't disturb the other children. Some of the brats claim that my freely exercising my religion was "coercive." They did not have to watch and they could leave the classroom. [edited because I have not sacrificed enough animals to help with my grammer] [ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Zimyatin ]</p>

04-08-2002, 09:30 AM	#9
delhurgo Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 149	Zim, I hear ya dude. I use to smoke peyote and drink altar wine during class. But they put a stop to that too. Brats! Big gov't bastards! Stop repressing us!!!! [edited for mistakes from being drunk and high] [ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: delhurgo ]</p>

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04-05-2002, 04:22 PM	#2
Zimyatin Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 308	This just highlights christian hypocrisy.

04-06-2002, 02:22 PM	#4
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	This is so funny, that I just had to... say how funny it was.

04-06-2002, 03:15 PM	#5
delhurgo Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 149	This doesn't just show the hypocrisy of christian republicans (excluding Jeb, amazingly), it also shows how ignorant some democrats are about this issue as well. Many dems, in Fla anyhow, seem to think that its up to the govt, cause of the 1st amend, to repress all expression of religion in public schools. They think that thats what the Supreme Court has ruled. But this isnt the case at all, as explained in the Aclu guidelines in the piece. This mistaken belief is why this issue is so effective for religious conservatives. Both parties have the american people believing that students rights are being suppressed. People are for "school prayer" overwhelmingly because they believe it is now against the law. Apparently, some dems, who knows how many, believe the same thing - and actually agree that it should be!. Its good to see the Aclu and others are trying to educate pols about this. If the American people would realise that students are free to pray and express their religious beliefs in school, this issue would go away.

04-07-2002, 01:48 PM	#7
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Does anyone have a link to the ACLU, etc., guidelines? I almost feel a Letter to the Editor of our local paper coming on.....

04-08-2002, 10:07 AM	#10
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	David - thanks for the link!

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