Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mark9950 · 05-26-2003, 10:47 PM

Why God never made a commandment against incest.

It puzzles me that God is so stupid to not make a commandment against something that will screw up our dna if this is practiced with immediate family such as lot.

Even though we are civilized enough not do do this thing,God never made a commandment against this practice.

Hey maybe magus55 knows

No lightning bolt yet.LOL

Elvithriel · 05-26-2003, 11:03 PM

In some of places in the world marrying your cousin is perfectly acceptable, and in some cases arranged.

pariah · 05-26-2003, 11:10 PM

its actually in the OT quite a bit isnt it?

i remember thinking "FUCKING SICK" sitting in catholic elementary school when the nuns said people in bethlehem married their cousins.

Celsus · 05-26-2003, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pariahSS
its actually in the OT quite a bit isnt it?

i remember thinking "FUCKING SICK" sitting in catholic elementary school when the nuns said people in bethlehem married their cousins.

Actually, marrying first cousins is a fairly common practice among Bedouins and Berbers in the Middle East and North Africa. There's nothing sick about it, just a different cultural norm and means of maintaining kinship relations.

Joel

Queen of Swords · 05-26-2003, 11:57 PM

Marrying first cousins is accepted in Sri Lanka, where I'm from : two of my uncles married their cousins, and their progeny seem normal.

We wouldn't mate with siblings or parents, though : that's reserved for characters in the bible.

Tenek · 05-27-2003, 12:20 AM

I'm pretty damned sure that some of the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy prohibit incest. Not sure of the degree required, however.

Having said that, from an admittedly unsophisticated genetic perspective, any particular gene in a child would have a 50% chance of matching the equivalent gene in the parent, a 50% chance of matching the equivalent gene in a sibling, a 25% chance of matching in a grandparent, a 12.5% chance of matching in an aunt/uncle and a 6.25% chance of matching in a cousin. Immediately family would then pose a much greater risk than even cousins. (Not entirely sure of the numbers but it looks right.) Divide the 6.25% by 4 for every layer of 'cousin' you add. Where do you want to set a limit? (I suppose I should add that seriously flawed genes would stand a good chance of being eliminated each generation, so for each layer you add you probably decrease the odds of getting an identical *flawed* gene by more than 75%.)

Muffinstuffer · 05-27-2003, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
Why God never made a commandment against incest.

Uh, he did. Several of them.

Quote:

Leviticus 18, verses 6 - 18
6: None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
7: The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8: The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
9: The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10: The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11: The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
13: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
14: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
17: Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18: Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

Leviticus 20, verses 11 , 12
11: And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12: And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20, verse 17
17: And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Leviticus 20, verses 19 - 21
19: And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20: And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
21: And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

Deuteronomy 22, verse 30
30: A man shall not take his father's wife, nor discover his father's skirt.

Deuteronomy 27, verses 20 - 23
20: Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
21: Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.
22: Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.
23: Cursed be he that lieth with his mother in law. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Ezekiel 22, verse 11
11: And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour's wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father's daughter.

Marduk · 05-27-2003, 09:24 AM

Marrying you sister was common in Egypt but there may have been a disclaimer that not if you have the same mother. Same father different mother OK.
this may have been true in Asyria (Babylon) as well, but I'm not sure.

mark9950 · 05-27-2003, 10:12 AM

I could have sworn I said Ten commandments,the leviticus laws are not the ten commandments.God never made a commandment against incest or homosexuality for that matter in the ten commandments.

I agree marrying cousins may be acceptable in many cultures,but marrying and having relations with an immediate family members is too close to your genetic line except maybe steps.

christ-on-a-stick · 05-28-2003, 09:56 AM

Muffinstuffer -

I don't think you were here when I posted this thread on the topic of incest and moral law (particularly the Xian belief that morality is not changeable). In light of your above post I thought you might want to take a crack at it...

In short, is incest a sin or not? As you pointed out, there are multiple verses that say it is, but according to the Bible, isn't that how the human population got started? If it WASN'T a sin, then BECAME a sin, that certainly strikes a blow to the concept of God's "unchanging moral nature", doesn't it?

05-26-2003, 10:47 PM	#1
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Ever you ever wander Why God never made a commandment against incest. It puzzles me that God is so stupid to not make a commandment against something that will screw up our dna if this is practiced with immediate family such as lot. Even though we are civilized enough not do do this thing,God never made a commandment against this practice. Hey maybe magus55 knows No lightning bolt yet.LOL

05-27-2003, 10:12 AM	#9
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Let me rephrase myself I could have sworn I said Ten commandments,the leviticus laws are not the ten commandments.God never made a commandment against incest or homosexuality for that matter in the ten commandments. I agree marrying cousins may be acceptable in many cultures,but marrying and having relations with an immediate family members is too close to your genetic line except maybe steps.

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05-26-2003, 11:03 PM	#2
Elvithriel Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 127	In some of places in the world marrying your cousin is perfectly acceptable, and in some cases arranged.

05-26-2003, 11:10 PM	#3
pariah Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: الرياض Posts: 6,456	its actually in the OT quite a bit isnt it? i remember thinking "FUCKING SICK" sitting in catholic elementary school when the nuns said people in bethlehem married their cousins.

05-26-2003, 11:57 PM	#5
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Marrying first cousins is accepted in Sri Lanka, where I'm from : two of my uncles married their cousins, and their progeny seem normal. We wouldn't mate with siblings or parents, though : that's reserved for characters in the bible.

05-27-2003, 12:20 AM	#6
Tenek Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 979	I'm pretty damned sure that some of the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy prohibit incest. Not sure of the degree required, however. Having said that, from an admittedly unsophisticated genetic perspective, any particular gene in a child would have a 50% chance of matching the equivalent gene in the parent, a 50% chance of matching the equivalent gene in a sibling, a 25% chance of matching in a grandparent, a 12.5% chance of matching in an aunt/uncle and a 6.25% chance of matching in a cousin. Immediately family would then pose a much greater risk than even cousins. (Not entirely sure of the numbers but it looks right.) Divide the 6.25% by 4 for every layer of 'cousin' you add. Where do you want to set a limit? (I suppose I should add that seriously flawed genes would stand a good chance of being eliminated each generation, so for each layer you add you probably decrease the odds of getting an identical flawed gene by more than 75%.)

05-27-2003, 09:24 AM	#8
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	Marrying you sister was common in Egypt but there may have been a disclaimer that not if you have the same mother. Same father different mother OK. this may have been true in Asyria (Babylon) as well, but I'm not sure.

05-28-2003, 09:56 AM	#10
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	Muffinstuffer - I don't think you were here when I posted this thread on the topic of incest and moral law (particularly the Xian belief that morality is not changeable). In light of your above post I thought you might want to take a crack at it... In short, is incest a sin or not? As you pointed out, there are multiple verses that say it is, but according to the Bible, isn't that how the human population got started? If it WASN'T a sin, then BECAME a sin, that certainly strikes a blow to the concept of God's "unchanging moral nature", doesn't it?

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