HoosierGuy28

Goliath,

Thanks for your response.

Well, my honest answer would be "ignorance". I believe in can be incorporated into a worldview, such as Buddhism, but in itself I wouldn't necessarily call it a belief system. But in their defense, I would also suggest that a lot probably falls into interpretation. I could refer to it as a "belief that no god exists". In that sense, it could be called a belief and for those who organize in favor of Atheism, such as organizations like American Atheists, I would say it could also be considered a belief system. Personally, if an atheist or group of atheist want to be referred to as people with non-belief, then I have no problem with making that acknowledgment. To me it seems like something pretty silly to even argue over.

On the same note, many people call Christianity a religion, and for many Christians I assure you, that is probably just as irritating. In general, Christians don't consider Christianity to be a religion, just like Atheists don't consider Atheism to be a religion. Now religion can be incorporated into Christianity. Let me give you an example in the Bible.
As you can see, religion is regarded as something separate than Christianity itself.

Thanks again for your response.

Joel

HoosierGuy28

K,

Thanks for the question.

Well, that question is a hard one to answer, but I will do my best. Let me explain it like this,

Finding God is like looking for your car keys when you're in a hurry. I've had times where I was in a hurry to get out the door, and I would look all over for my car keys. I would lift up couch cushions, I would go through the laundry basket checking through my pants, then eventually after running all around looking for my car keys, I find them on the kitchen counter or some other obvious place. The search for God doesn't need to be a difficult one, but it can be. I could probably ask an infinite number of "whys" as to whether I should acknowledge God's existence or not, but that probably won't get me much closer. It's very hard to find truth in controversy.

Now personally, I have no doubt in my mind about the existence of God. I've stopped questioning whether God exists, and I've started building on that knowledge that God does in fact exist.

After that, everything just keeps getting easier. In fact, I believe God asks very little of us. Just a short time of faithfulness from us, and willingly gives us an eternity in exchange. In fact, let me show you how simple the concept of Christianity is.

The basics,

I'm sure you know this first one,


So the basis of Christianity is:
1. Acceptance
2. Loving God and others
3. Sharing

So the idea isn't for anyone to have to be tormented.

Now as far as God being forgiving. Sure, I believe God is forgiving. We are given the chance to start over and change our lives. I had a horrible past before I accepted Christ, but now I don't really even acknowledge that past. I've started over, and now my desire is to help others receive that same opportunity.

Now do I think this post showed you that God does exist and that you should become a Christian? No, probably not, but I would hope it to be a start. I'm not here to force my beliefs on anyone, but to attempt to show you a Christian perspective on things.

Thanks again

Joel

The Naked Mage

Hoosier,

You know that guy on the cross who, or possibly whom, Jesus told would "be with me in my father's house" the next day, after which Jesus spent three days in Hell? Well, whatever happened to that guy?

Furthermore, do you think the literalist impression this leaves one could be tied in to the topic of <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001281" target="_blank">this thread</a>?

[ October 20, 2002: Message edited by: The Naked Mage ]</p>

HoosierGuy28

Mageth,

Ok, concerning the first view

A sabbath is a day of rememberance or acknowledgment. So some scholars believe that it was a day in rememberance of Christ which followed him being crucified, which would've been on a Thursday. Just as Saturday (the 7th day) was a day of rememberance, acknowledgement, and of course rest.

Concerning the second view:

Yes, that's why I gave the example in Esther of the same kind of phrase being used as a figure of speech, which is somewhat common in Hebrew writing.

Again, these are only suggested reconciliations for the scripture. I wasn't there, and that's why I don't favor one of the other.

Okay now,

Because God does not intervene all the time does not mean God doesn't show love. Even the most loving parents don't always intervene when they see their children doing wrong. And I see no reason to blame God for what others do. I say, blame the people doing those things that are wrong. Many times, the things that go wrong in life are the things that we learn the most from.

Thanks for your replies,

Joel

Pensee

Do angels have free will?
If so, then why did god create humans?
If not, then why did satan & the demons get kicked out of heaven?

K

Hoosier:

That didn't exactly answer the question. There are many here (myself included) who have looked for God and found absolutely nothing. Even if God may not want someone to suffer, would He condemn someone to Hell simply because they didn't find Him?

Many, if not most, of the atheists here were former Christians. Some of us were absolutely convinced of the existence of God when we were younger.

-RRH-

First up, Joel, it may have been wiser to gently ease yourself into this, rather than hold yourself up to a free-for-all barrage of questions. You'll tire yourself out too quickly, this way.

That said, I'll add my two cents on the above.

You said:
I'm kind of surprised at this. I find the majority of Christians consider Christianity to be a religion. And I think atheists have more reasons to claim otherwise than do Christians.

A big difference, in my opinion, is that atheists do not need to be taught to be atheists. Atheists can pop up in any culture, completely independently from all other atheists. But to become a Christian, you have to have learned about Christianity somewhere.

lunachick

Hi, Joel

How come God hasn't managed to at least keep the Holy City of Jerusalem free from violence and hate?

How come the Church of the Holy Sepulchre has to be looked after by a Muslim because the different factions of Christianity can't get past an age without treating each other cruelly?

And why is the most capitalistic nation in the world so fundamentally Christian? Surely pure capitalism goes against Christ's teachings?

Thanks.

Goliath

Joel,

No problem. Unlike some theist members of this board, you are not chicken enough to ignore me.

This is what I first surmised. However, I've tried educating xians on this, and they refuse to learn that atheism is not what their incorrect perception of it is.

Absolutely! In fact, I'll go as far to say that any two atheists probably don't have the exact same worldview (if there are exceptions to this, they are probably exceedingly rare).

Absolutely incorrect. Strong atheism is a belief that no god exists. Weak atheists, such as myself, need hold no such belief. In fact, here is a complete and total list of beliefs that I hold regarding the supernatural:

Nothing.

Ah, but xianity is a religion. It is the religion with the xian god as its deity.

Until you prove that the bible is the word of the xian god (and, of course, you would need to prove that the xian god exists, first), then I couldn't care less about what the bible has to say on any issue whatsoever, save for discussions specifically involving the bible (eg pointing out biblical contradictions).

Incorrect. Xianity, by definition, is one type of religion.

Sincerely,

Goliath

FoE

What is this purpose?