rainbow walking

For the sake of argument let's say the christian version of god exists and created everything we currently know to exist...including us. One of the most unique aspects of our nature as men is the ability to investigate, dissect, dis-mantle and critique everything within our perceptual reach...including this god as he's portrayed in the christian bible.

Wouldn't an omniscient god be able to forsee a world of critics and make a better effort to present himself in a fashion less susceptible to man's nature? It's highly suspicious that such a being would leave his introduction and record in the hands of such creatures so capable of smelling a rat or turning a rose into a turd.

Are there any christians hereabouts willing to apologize us up a reasonable explanation for this apparent flaw in your god's plans?

99Percent

I am no Christian and never was, but my guess is that the typical response would be that God is testing our love to him and constantly tests our faith despite all the contradictions and apparent flaws.

You believe God is good, perfect? - Good
You believe God is bad, imperfect, etc? - Your faith is not strong enough then. Pray harder!

Phanes

I have to agree - pretty shoddy job by God so far. You'd think he would prove he exists and then let the real test be following the commandments or not (of course he'd need a good team of lawyers to untangle those...). As it is, we can't even agree what he's like or whether he exists.

Not to mention he needs to get his act together in Asia and Africa. Strange how YHWH's divine inspiration seems to strike unnaturally often in areas that are already Christian.

rainbow walking

Hi 99percent,

I am no Christian and never was, but my guess is that the typical response would be that God is testing our love to him and constantly tests our faith despite all the contradictions and apparent flaws.

I would imagine you're right. That would seem to be the most logical and common response from a christian's perspective. But do we engage in such tactics with our loved ones? Is this a proper way to initiate and maintain a relationship? To constantly test and prod someone for their sincerity? This line of reasoning personifies a god with personality disorders.

Hi Phanes, welcome to the forums.

I have to agree - pretty shoddy job by God so far. You'd think he would prove he exists and then let the real test be following the commandments or not (of course he'd need a good team of lawyers to untangle those...). As it is, we can't even agree what he's like or whether he exists.

The only way I can rectify this whole reliance on blind faith element is if such a god were planning to use those who were the most faithful in some way where this type of reliance would be more critical than reliance on intellect...perhaps in a universe or world where faith had the power to manipulate its laws the way knowledge does here in this event horizon.



Not to mention he needs to get his act together in Asia and Africa. Strange how YHWH's divine inspiration seems to strike unnaturally often in areas that are already Christian.

You noticed that trend too, have you?

Selsaral

Good observation. Particularly when god's number one criteria for how you live out the afterlife (or don't exist at all after life depending on your particular cult) is entirely based upon whether you believe in his existence. Not whether you 'accept' him or follow him, but actually believe he exists as a real entity. He can't make his religion even 0.05% more convincing than astrology, hinduism, hellenism etc? I can't wait to hear the christians come to defend it.

Silent Acorns

Another tactic would be to say, "God gave us all the proof we need to believe. As for the other religions, their "evidence" is trivial next to the powerful evidence for the resurection of Jesus. If you don't agree, it's because you have a naturalistic bias against God.".

rainbow walking

Hi Silent Acorns,
Thnx for the reply. You said:

Another tactic would be to say, "God gave us all the proof we need to believe.


What proof would you be speaking of here?

As for the other religions, their "evidence" is trivial next to the powerful evidence for the resurection of Jesus.


I'm unaware of any powerful evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Could you elaborate please?

If you don't agree, it's because you have a naturalistic bias against God.".

Are you sure? Maybe folks just have an ordinary amount of intelligence and thus remain skeptical of extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidences. Perhaps those who do believe have a mystical bias to believe.

Silent Acorns

I'm an atheist, I don't accept any of the arguments I prestented. I was only relating what what I've heard theists say (such as Craig). Sorry if I got your hopes up for a theistic response.

The current "state-of-the-art" apologetic argument w.r.t. evidence for god (based on what I've read) is that the "historical" activities of Paul, Peter, James, etc. prove the resurrection was real (since they wouldn't be willing to die for their beliefs if it wasn't real) and that this "true" ressurection can only happen if the xian god exists. To cap it all off, they will claim that this evidence is so convincing that only an atheist's stubborn bias could deny it.

After all, it works for them and they're smart. So either we're too dumb or too biased to see.

Q.E.D.

:banghead: :banghead:

rainbow walking

Guess I'll have to keep fishing...eh?

long winded fool

It is not logical to assume that humanity is at the peak of its critical thinking ability. If God's wants humans to reason, (and according to the Bible He does. Isaiah 1:18) then doesn't it make sense to challenge our reasoning ability with difficulties and seeming contradictions and paradoxes? In other words, "Come and find me. When you do, you will be what I want you to become." Complaining that it's too hard seems like giving up and being content with the level of reason you've currently attained. How do you know that reason and logic are leading you away from God if you've never met Him? Religion and Christianity are not necessarily the same as God, nor, according to the Bible, are they the only paths to Him. Religion and Christianity are just as fallible as anything else. While true, perfect reason and logic might be difficult or impossible to attain, they are by definition infallible in the same sense that the true laws of physics are unbreakable. Attempting to solve contradiction is more reasonable than assuming all contradictions are unsolvable. Unless of course you think that your current reasoning ability is infallible.