Haran

Hypothetically speaking, I want to deconvert and become an Atheist. Since I now don't believe in God or any ultimate judgement for my actions here on earth, I don't want to hear about him or religion.

Now, I have quite a different world view than before. How do I go about shaping my new morality?

Thanks,
Haran

HallaK9

Hello, Haran

By Haran:
Well, if you are an average guy/gal, you probably go about it as you have done this far. Being emphatic, decent and having a bit of common sense goes a long way. I live in a society where being non-religious is the norm and we are doing quite fine, thank you. There is quite a good collection of writings on this subject in the<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/index.shtml" target="_blank">II library</a>, I suggest you peruse it for a bit.

Cheers,

Antti

Pomp

Haran,

Now, I have quite a different world view than before. How do I go about shaping my new morality?

This is a difficult qiestion to answer, as there are many different moral theories that are compatible with atheism, some of which are also compatible with theism. My own views on morality didn't change much when I deconverted.

I'd start by looking at your current understanding of morality and asking yourself why you hold it. Try to figure out what it is that makes you think that an act is "good" or "right" and proceed from there. Unless you hold some version of Divine Command Theory (the morality of an act is determined by god's opinion of it), chances are that whatever answers you find will still hold true in the event that you should deconvert.

Jayhawker Soule

Curious. Are you suggesting that you 'shaped your old morality' based on a some belief in 'ultimate judgement'?

Haran

Thanks. I am saying that I am starting from scratch and I don't know what view to take on about morals.
I am not making any statements about my "old morality". I only want to know what to do now... Where do I turn for my values? What should I do and how should I act?

Haran

trunks2k

Well I think a good start is to look at your already existing personal moral code that you obtained from your religion. Now, for all of the morals in your code, try and ask yorself "Why is doing (x) acceptable/unnaceptable" If you can't come up with any reason other than "because the God I used to believe in says so," then you should reconsider that part of your morality. That's what I did as I slowly converted to atheism. It worked as a good ground level, and I found that most of my morals didn't change. And then you just go on from there.

[ April 01, 2002: Message edited by: trunks2k ]</p>

99Percent

Haran: I am saying that I am starting from scratch and I don't know what view to take on about morals.

You already have a set of subjective ethics and values (those that apply to you only). The interesting part comes when you have to deal with others in relation to your moral decisions, this is when objective morals come into play.

I am not making any statements about my "old morality". I only want to know what to do now... Where do I turn for my values? What should I do and how should I act?

First think what is it that you value most? I would say your life and happiness is first priority. Grasp the reality of your life so you can value it deeper. For starters do not lie (no gods is a good start!) as lies distort your perception of reality and diminishes your sense of self.

Second what gives value to your life in relation to others? You have to trade your work and effort with others so you can feel proud of your self (notice not yourself but your - self). Conscious pleasure derived from sex and money are the standard of measure of this sense of accomplishments and will raise your self-esteem and true happiness. So yeah you must be selfish! If instead you resort to fantasy, feelings, stealing and drunkenness you will lose this sense of self and become prideless and depressed.

This is only the beginning. But the most important fact to realize is that since there is no afterlife, you have to make your life the best there can ever be in the expression of your unique self. It is definitely unique because no one has or will ever have your memory, genes and point of view in the entire existence of the universe. In short - you have to enhance your individuality granted by this uniqueness, by sensing your self as much as possible in other other words be conscious of your life and actions in relation to reality. Feel your life! Don't listen to that bullshit that reality is just an illusion, that your senses can be decieved, blah, blah. You know what is true because reality has a logical persistentence that continously confirm your senses and your memory.

Oops, I got carried away. Sorry if this sounds preachy. Anyway, this is based on Ayn Rand's Objectivism but beware that objectivism has been severely criticized for its dogmatic absolutism -not good either! So take it with a skeptical mind as in any intellectual and philosophical endeavor, of course.

Wizardry

The Golden Rule always works just fine. Start there.

I really don't know what else you would need.

Peace out.

tronvillain

Talk of "The Golden Rule" always irritates me, though I'm not sure why.

Anyway, morality is just something that happens.

HallaK9

By Haran:
I'm assuming that by morals you mean the correct behaviour towards other people, please correct me if I'm wrong.

To make a long story short, I don't believe in morals, only ethics.

Every person (except for rare medical cases), has the innate ability and desire to behave. Morals are, to my understanding, only a tool for implementing a consensus of ethics in any given environment. Their function is to establish a formal set of rules by which the society can measure and control the behaviour of its members so that the society itself will function as smoothly as possible (by society here I mean any group of people who interact with each other).

As for values, you turn to yourself. Your values are defined by your view of the world. To look for values from some outside source is counterproductive; it will never teach you to be able to distinguish between 'right' and 'wrong' by yourself. A bit like memorizing the calculus but never learning the maths, if you wish.

And really, even if you wished to be a tabula rasa, you aren't. Nobody is, because we constantly interact with our surroundings and other people and our identity is very much based on our previous experiences, i.e. memory.

In short, our values are based on our world view, our world view is based on our personal history and everybody has a personal history which can't be wiped off. Try to live in accordance of your values, morals are not necessary.

Hope I answered your question,

Antti

ps. This is just my two cents, and I'm an expert in neither psychology nor sosiology