FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-16-2003, 04:47 PM   #1
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nevada
Posts: 333
Question DNA is design and has a designer???

No matter what I come back with in response I simply cannot break through the wall of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance of my opponent who gave me this syllogism:

Quote:
Design must have a designer.
DNA is a design.
There must be a designer for DNA.
I've shown how the Telelogical Argument is faulty and has already been disproven, among other things, and shown how DNA is not "designed" and doesn't even fall within the definition of "design." Yet they keep coming back with nonsensical responses like, "I don't need to contrast something with something else in order to know what it is or that it was designed." In other words, it's a self-evident argument ad nauseum.

I thought I'd post the above syllogism and see who (those who do not conform to the lunacy of Creationism) would respond in disproving it.

Any takers?
donaldkilroy is offline  
Old 08-16-2003, 06:25 PM   #2
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 179
Default

Premise one is of course the questionable premise.
If DNA was a designed, then premise two might hold some truth.

How can you prove DNA is designed? Define "Design" and "Designed" - ie. if I drop a bucket of paint on a sheet of paper, and it makes something that looks like a picture, is that a "design"? (It certainly isn't "designed") I don't think you can prove something was designed... you can only really assume. (of course with the classic example - the watch - there is good reason to assume it is designed)

There's probably someone with better material than me, but those are just some thoughts of mine.

[Added] You sound like you are probably already more knowledgable than me in the matter anyway
The_Unknown_Banana is offline  
Old 08-16-2003, 08:08 PM   #3
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Snyder,Texas,USA
Posts: 4,411
Default

DNA is just another polymer, not a design. The syllogism collapses.
Coragyps is offline  
Old 08-17-2003, 03:10 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Coast. Australia.
Posts: 5,455
Default

Bleegh. Pathetic little legalistic arguments like that are the last resort of people who can't cope with things like facts and evidence.

"You think a hundred lines of evidence independantly converging on the fact of common descent can stop me? I can write shit in the modus ponens! take THAT!"
Doubting Didymus is offline  
Old 08-17-2003, 04:22 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Everywhere... I'm Watching you...
Posts: 1,019
Default

Even if we agree, for the sake of the argument, that DNA is designed, that doesn't mean that the designer is a conscious being.
Mecha_Dude is offline  
Old 08-18-2003, 04:26 AM   #6
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,834
Default Re: DNA is design and has a designer???

Quote:
Originally posted by donaldkilroy
I thought I'd post the above syllogism and see who (those who do not conform to the lunacy of Creationism) would respond in disproving it.

Any takers?
Let's take this line by line:
Quote:
Design must have a designer.
Actually, I think we can stop right here.
Some Examples:
Sand dunes make very regular patterns (designs) Therefore wind is a designer?
Many herding/schooling animals (fish in particular) tend to group in certain patterns. I've seen some quite fascinating schools of small fish in the shallows off Okinawa that from a distance resemble nothing so much as a small ball of rolling seaweed (imagine an aquatic tumbleweed ).
Many geologic formations form as a result of the crystalline stucture of the rocks into very specific shapes. Maybe one of our geologists can give us some good examples.

I think this is at least enough to show that the premise of this argument is flawed.

Quote:
DNA is a design.
Well, I suppose, I'll give 'em this one.

Quote:
There must be a designer for DNA.
Ah well, I guess if you consider selective pressures and the ability to reproduce as 'designers' then by all means, this is a logical conclusion.

Hope this helps.

Lane
Worldtraveller is offline  
Old 08-18-2003, 04:44 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Just another hick from the sticks.
Posts: 1,108
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Mecha_Dude
Even if we agree, for the sake of the argument, that DNA is designed, that doesn't mean that the designer is a conscious being.
And if he is, I've got a bone to pick with the inept bastard about my spine; and no, I will not apologize for the pun.

doov
Duvenoy is offline  
Old 08-18-2003, 04:44 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4,656
Default

No-one's denying design. Not even Richard Dawkins. It's just that it isn't intelligent design.
Heathen Dawn is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:54 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.