Freethought & Rationalism Archive

eh · 02-10-2002, 08:43 AM

We never seem to get any new agers on this forum who have a passion for debating, unlike the Christians we have here. So I'm wondering if an invitation to the folks from the near-death.com board should go out. The forum is messed up (its a wwwboard without file locking) often, but does get a lot of activity.

The site consists of so called proof that near death experiences reveal that not only is there a God, but an afterlife as well. The webmaster is quite willing to debate, as are some forum members. Perhaps some here would like to go there and mess the place up? I do recall the infidels giving poor Judah from Foolish Faith some technical problems on his forum for about 6 months. The URL is <a href="http://www.near-death.com" target="_blank">http://www.near-death.com</a> with a link to the forum at the bottom.

phlebas · 02-10-2002, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the invite, but this is probably more appropriate in the Misc Religion Discussions forum.

ecco · 02-11-2002, 11:34 AM

<a href="http://www.near-death.com" target="_blank">http://www.near-death.com</a> is the usual bunch of NDE crap. One of the headings lists atheist NDEs. This should more correctly read EX-atheist NDEs as they are all now believers. An excerpt from one follows:

Quote:

On September 17, 1975, Dannion Brinkley was talking on the phone during a thunderstorm. A bolt of lightning hit the phone line, sending thousands of volts of electricity into his head and down his body. His heart stopped, and he died, but in the process, he had a near-death experience. When Brinkley revived in the morgue after twenty-eight minutes of death, he had an incredible story to tell. Brinkley was told of events that would shake the world before the year 2000 - including the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, the Persian Gulf War, and a coming economic crisis. Of the 117 revelations that he recalls, 95 have already come to pass.

revived in the morgue after twenty-eight minutes of death

Helluva quick trip from getting hit to being in the morgue! Our local ambulance service should take note. Oooops, maybe he worked in the morgue.

Of the 117 revelations that he recalls, 95 have already come to pass

Too bad he didn�t document them at the time.

Of course Brinkley and all the others are selling books. On the link to excerpts from his books one can read the following disclaimer:

Quote:

NOTE: The near-death experience reveals that the future is not written in stone. Prophecy is always given for the purpose of changing current trends and thereby changing the future. The future is based on a series of probabilities that exist today. Dannion was given the prophecy that America will be economically bankrupt by the year 2000. Since this prophecy did not occur, it is safe to conclude that something was done to prevent this prophecy from occuring. The purpose of prophecy is never for it to be fulfilled. It's purpose is to change the future. Somehow this prophecy given to Dannion was diverted by some unknown factor. Perhaps it was the fall of the Soviet Union. Who knows? All we know for sure is that this prophecy was successful in that it didn't come to pass. For this reason, we should all be hopeful because it shows that perhaps humanity may be doing something right after all. Now for Dannion's prophecies, both fulfilled, diverted, and yet to be fulfilled or diverted:

.

All we know for sure is that this prophecy was successful in that it didn't come to pass.

God! I am definitely in the wrong business. To show that he really did have an NDE complete with revelations we get: �Ninety five of 117 revelations have come to pass� But when he misses a really BIG one we get: �This prophecy was successful in that it didn't come to pass�. OK, I think I�ll try that line on my boss.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: ecco ]</p>

ex-idaho · 02-11-2002, 12:06 PM

I want a job where the more I get wrong the better my performance.

scombrid · 02-11-2002, 12:35 PM

Since this prophecy did not occur, it is safe to conclude that something was done to prevent this prophecy from occuring

Jeeez, talk about wiggle room.

New agers are usually just as simple-minded as Christians. The difference is that they tend to be liberal and want everybody to be openminded. The only problem is that their minds are so open that it seems as if the contents have spilled to the floor.

It is nearly impossible to have a rational discussion with new agers. Example: I visited a forum on John Edwards. It was labeled as a skeptics forum. I read several threads and not one was skeptical of the occurrance of some paranormal activity. Several posters were Christians accusing him of speaking to demons. A few others honestly beleived that he wasn't talking to the dead but was getting the information by inadvertently reading the minds of his guests. The guy is a cold reader. I posted a nice detailed critique of Edwards' techniques relative to my knowledge of cold reading and got flamed for it.

Randomly yanked from NDE testimonial:

Quote:

That's when I saw my body for the first time, and when I realized I was no longer a part of it. Until this moment, I'd only seen myself straight on, as we usually do, in mirrors and photographs

Did people see themselves during out of body experiences before the invention of photographs, mirrors, or other imaging devices that allowed them to see themselve and have memories of their own appearance?

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: scombrid ]</p>

alek0 · 02-13-2002, 12:13 AM

Recently Lancet has published an article on near death experiences (Volume 358, Number 9298 15 December 2001). I was absolutely amazed that this got published in such prestigious journal, considering the interpretation they give. Their analysis of the findings is just speculation which does not deserve to be published in peer reviewed journal. I fully support the claim "phenomenon requires further study" but nothing more than that.

I'll hate to see author's speculations quoted as facts in some future articles, but then again I usually have problems with biomedical science papers. Many of them don't satisfy the criteria which we physicists would consider necessary for scientific research.

Seeker196 · 02-13-2002, 05:44 AM

Ironic quotation from that site:

"We are born with two incurable diseases, life, from which we die, and hope, which says maybe death isn't the end." - Andrew Greeley

02-10-2002, 08:43 AM	#1
eh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 624	Would any infidels care to squash some new agers? We never seem to get any new agers on this forum who have a passion for debating, unlike the Christians we have here. So I'm wondering if an invitation to the folks from the near-death.com board should go out. The forum is messed up (its a wwwboard without file locking) often, but does get a lot of activity. The site consists of so called proof that near death experiences reveal that not only is there a God, but an afterlife as well. The webmaster is quite willing to debate, as are some forum members. Perhaps some here would like to go there and mess the place up? I do recall the infidels giving poor Judah from Foolish Faith some technical problems on his forum for about 6 months. The URL is <a href="http://www.near-death.com" target="_blank">http://www.near-death.com</a> with a link to the forum at the bottom.

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02-10-2002, 01:58 PM	#2
phlebas Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Metropolis Posts: 916	Thanks for the invite, but this is probably more appropriate in the Misc Religion Discussions forum.

02-11-2002, 12:06 PM	#4
ex-idaho Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Spudtopia, ID Posts: 5,315	I want a job where the more I get wrong the better my performance.

02-13-2002, 12:13 AM	#6
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	Recently Lancet has published an article on near death experiences (Volume 358, Number 9298 15 December 2001). I was absolutely amazed that this got published in such prestigious journal, considering the interpretation they give. Their analysis of the findings is just speculation which does not deserve to be published in peer reviewed journal. I fully support the claim "phenomenon requires further study" but nothing more than that. I'll hate to see author's speculations quoted as facts in some future articles, but then again I usually have problems with biomedical science papers. Many of them don't satisfy the criteria which we physicists would consider necessary for scientific research.

02-13-2002, 05:44 AM	#7
Seeker196 Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 278	Ironic quotation from that site: "We are born with two incurable diseases, life, from which we die, and hope, which says maybe death isn't the end." - Andrew Greeley

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