Freethought & Rationalism Archive

One of the last sane · 06-21-2002, 03:56 PM

Well, is there?

I have heard that there is a description of the young Jesus striking dead a playmate who pissed him off, and exhibiting other charming traits. Is that true?

Is any of the Apocrypha worth reading for amusement's sake?

cloudyphiz · 06-21-2002, 05:32 PM

see for yourself...

at <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/" target="_blank">peter kirby's site</a>

-gary

(edited to say, 'yeah, i think so')

[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: cloudyphiz ]

King Arthur · 06-21-2002, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by One of last of the sane:
Well, is there?

I have heard that there is a description of the young Jesus striking dead a playmate who pissed him off, and exhibiting other charming traits. Is that true?

Is any of the Apocrypha worth reading for amusement's sake?

Depends on what apocrypha you're talking about. Are you talking about the books that are in the Catholic Bible but not in the protestant Bible, or are you talking about early apocryphal christian writings?

Anyway, the early apocryphal christian literature can be entertaining and it is obviously souped up in the miracle department.

You might start out with the Infancy Gospel of Thomas if you can find it which reports the story you're talking about I think. Also, the Koran borrowed it's story about Jesus and the dove(s) from the IGoT!!
Oh yeah, there's also the Gospel of Peter which is pretty funny! It has a walking, talking cross and two guys whose heads reach all the way up into the heavens! Cool stuff, man!!!!!!!

Peter Kirby · 06-22-2002, 01:38 AM

<a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html" target="_blank">http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html</a>

IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died. But certain when they saw what was done said: Whence was this young child born, for that every word of his is an accomplished work? And the parents of him that was dead came unto Joseph, and blamed him, saying: Thou that hast such a child canst not dwell with us in the village: or do thou teach him to bless and not to curse: for he slayeth our children.

I would say that some of the apocrypha is good enough to be reading for amusement, particularly the infancy gospels of James and Thomas. Mostly, however, I think its interest is historical. There are joke books and contemporary fiction written to amuse.

best,
Peter Kirby

King Arthur · 06-22-2002, 05:11 AM

'Course, if I remember right, Peter, Jesus brings all the kids he killed back to life, so he's not really a bad guy *when you put the verse in context*! Dude! I'm beginning to sound like a Christian!

King Arthur · 06-22-2002, 07:34 PM

Here's some good online NT apocrypha (maybe they're on Kirby's site, didn't look):

<a href="http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels.htm" target="_blank">http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels.htm</a>

Here's the bit from the Gospel of Peter:

35 Now in the night whereon the Lord's day dawned, as the soldiers were keeping guard two by two in every watch, 36 there came a great sound in the heaven, and they saw the heavens opened and two men descend thence, shining with (lit. having) a great light, and drawing near unto the sepulchre. 37 And that stone which had been set on the door rolled away of itself and went back to the side, and the sepulchre was

X. 38 opened and both of the young men entered in. When therefore those soldiers saw that, they waked up the centurion and the elders (for they also were there keeping 39 watch); and while they were yet telling them the things which they had seen, they saw again three men come out of the sepulchre, and two of them sustaining the other (lit. the 40 one), and a cross following, after them. And of the two they saw that their heads reached unto heaven, but of him that 41 was led by them that it overpassed the heavens. And they 42 heard a voice out of the heavens saying: Hast thou (or Thou hast) preached unto them that sleep? And an answer was heard from the cross, saying: Yea.

Ah Yeah!!! I love dat part! Talk cross, talk!

One of the last sane · 06-23-2002, 02:30 AM

Cool links, cloudyphiz and King Arthur, thank you.

King Arthur, the cross was in the tomb? And, three guys and the cross has to do the talking? What a whacko story.

What did the Romans do with crosses, I wonder? Probably used them repeatedly, I'd guess. Anyone know?

[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: One of last of the sane ]

King Arthur · 06-23-2002, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by One of last of the sane:
King Arthur, the cross was in the tomb? And, three guys and the cross has to do the talking? What a whacko story.

Yup, the cross was in the tomb and it came out "following" the men like a little puppy and said "Yea"! Maybe it should've been "yip"!

I love walking, talking crosses!

offa · 06-23-2002, 05:00 AM

Offa; Here are a few references that I will
outrage "biblical scholars (fundies)"

The crosses, made from wooden posts used to erect tents for the
visiting villagers, were set up on a spot that can be determined
exactly. The location lay outside the southern entrance gate ...

ref.
Barbara Thiering, Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls (Jesus
the Man), p.113

The crosses were already available at the site for the use of the
pilgrims as supports for tents, as a detail from the Gospel of
Philip shows (Phil 73:- 8/19).

ref.
Barbara Thiering, The Book that Jesus Wrote p.110

thanks,
Offa

One of the last sane · 06-23-2002, 08:36 AM

Methinks the cross would have had to hop, not walk. Unless it had grown legs? I suppose that is no more ridiculous than that three enormously tall people could fit in a little tomb.

06-21-2002, 03:56 PM	#1
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Is there anything interesting in the Apocrypha? Well, is there? I have heard that there is a description of the young Jesus striking dead a playmate who pissed him off, and exhibiting other charming traits. Is that true? Is any of the Apocrypha worth reading for amusement's sake?

06-21-2002, 05:32 PM	#2
cloudyphiz Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: rochester, ny, usa Posts: 658	see for yourself... at <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/" target="_blank">peter kirby's site</a> -gary (edited to say, 'yeah, i think so') [ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: cloudyphiz ]</p>

06-23-2002, 02:30 AM	#7
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Cool links, cloudyphiz and King Arthur, thank you. King Arthur, the cross was in the tomb? And, three guys and the cross has to do the talking? What a whacko story. What did the Romans do with crosses, I wonder? Probably used them repeatedly, I'd guess. Anyone know? [ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: One of last of the sane ]</p>

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06-22-2002, 01:38 AM	#4
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	<a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html" target="_blank">http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-a-mrjames.html</a> IV. 1 After that again he went through the village, and a child ran and dashed against his shoulder. And Jesus was provoked and said unto him: Thou shalt not finish thy course (lit. go all thy way). And immediately he fell down and died. But certain when they saw what was done said: Whence was this young child born, for that every word of his is an accomplished work? And the parents of him that was dead came unto Joseph, and blamed him, saying: Thou that hast such a child canst not dwell with us in the village: or do thou teach him to bless and not to curse: for he slayeth our children. I would say that some of the apocrypha is good enough to be reading for amusement, particularly the infancy gospels of James and Thomas. Mostly, however, I think its interest is historical. There are joke books and contemporary fiction written to amuse. best, Peter Kirby

06-22-2002, 05:11 AM	#5
King Arthur Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Camelot Posts: 290	'Course, if I remember right, Peter, Jesus brings all the kids he killed back to life, so he's not really a bad guy when you put the verse in context! Dude! I'm beginning to sound like a Christian!

06-22-2002, 07:34 PM	#6
King Arthur Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Camelot Posts: 290	Here's some good online NT apocrypha (maybe they're on Kirby's site, didn't look): <a href="http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels.htm" target="_blank">http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels.htm</a> Here's the bit from the Gospel of Peter: 35 Now in the night whereon the Lord's day dawned, as the soldiers were keeping guard two by two in every watch, 36 there came a great sound in the heaven, and they saw the heavens opened and two men descend thence, shining with (lit. having) a great light, and drawing near unto the sepulchre. 37 And that stone which had been set on the door rolled away of itself and went back to the side, and the sepulchre was X. 38 opened and both of the young men entered in. When therefore those soldiers saw that, they waked up the centurion and the elders (for they also were there keeping 39 watch); and while they were yet telling them the things which they had seen, they saw again three men come out of the sepulchre, and two of them sustaining the other (lit. the 40 one), and a cross following, after them. And of the two they saw that their heads reached unto heaven, but of him that 41 was led by them that it overpassed the heavens. And they 42 heard a voice out of the heavens saying: Hast thou (or Thou hast) preached unto them that sleep? And an answer was heard from the cross, saying: Yea. Ah Yeah!!! I love dat part! Talk cross, talk!

06-23-2002, 05:00 AM	#9
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	Offa; Here are a few references that I will outrage "biblical scholars (fundies)" The crosses, made from wooden posts used to erect tents for the visiting villagers, were set up on a spot that can be determined exactly. The location lay outside the southern entrance gate ... ref. Barbara Thiering, Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls (Jesus the Man), p.113 The crosses were already available at the site for the use of the pilgrims as supports for tents, as a detail from the Gospel of Philip shows (Phil 73:- 8/19). ref. Barbara Thiering, The Book that Jesus Wrote p.110 thanks, Offa

06-23-2002, 08:36 AM	#10
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	Methinks the cross would have had to hop, not walk. Unless it had grown legs? I suppose that is no more ridiculous than that three enormously tall people could fit in a little tomb.

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