Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 04-16-2013, 02:53 PM

I have found a parallel between Philo, the Marcosians and Clement of Alexandria which I think might go back to the Problemata of Aristotle but have no way of knowing for certain. Here are the three passages:

Quote:

some of those persons who have (in the past) fancied that the world is everlasting, inventing a variety of new arguments, employ also such a system of reasoning as this to establish their point: they affirm that there are four principal manners in which corruption is brought about, addition, taking away, transposition, and alteration; accordingly, the number two is by the addition of the unit corrupted so as to become the number three, and no longer remains the number two; and the number four by the taking away of the unit is corrupted so as to become the number three; again, by transposition the letter Zeta becomes the letter Eta when the parallel lines which were previously horizontal (3/43/4) are placed perpendicularly (1/2 1/2), and when the line which did before pass upwards, so as to connect the two is now made horizontal, and still extended between them so as to join them. And by alteration the word oinos, wine, becomes oxos, vinegar.

But of the manner of corruption thus mentioned there is not one which is in the least degree whatever applicable to the world, since otherwise what could we say? Could we affirm that anything is added to the world so as to cause its destruction? But there is nothing whatever outside of the world which is not a portion of it as the whole, for everything is surrounded, and contained, and mastered by it. Again, can we say that anything is taken from the world so as to have that effect? In the first place that which would be taken away would again be a world of smaller dimensions than the existing one, and in the second place it is impossible that any body could be separated from the composite fabric of the whole world so as to be completely dispersed. Again, are we to say that the constituent parts of the world are transposed? But at all events they remain in their original positions without any change of place, for never at any time shall the whole earth be raised up above the water, nor the water above the air, nor the air above the fire. But those things which are by nature heavy, namely the earth and the water, will have the middle place, the earth supporting everything like a solid foundation, and the water being above it; and the air and the fire, which are by nature light, will have the higher position, but not equally, for the air is the vehicle of the fire; and that which is carried by anything is of necessity above that which carries it. Once more: we must not imagine that the world is destroyed by alteration, for the change of any elements is equipollent, and that which is equipollent is the cause of unvarying steadiness, and of untroubled durability, inasmuch as it neither seeks any advantage itself, and is not subject to the inroads of other things which seek advantages at its expense; so that this retribution and compensation of these powers is equalized by the rules of proportion, being the produce of health and endless preservation, by all which considerations the world is demonstrated to be eternal. [On the Eternity of the World XXII]

Quote:

express themselves in this manner: that the letter Eta along with the remarkable one constitutes all ogdoad, as it is situated in the eighth place from Alpha. Then, again, computing the number of these elements without the remarkable (letter), and adding them together up to Eta, they exhibit the number thirty. For any one beginning from the Alpha to the Eta will, after subtracting the remarkable (letter i.e. episemon) ... they subtract twelve, and reckon it at eleven. And in like manner, (they subtract) ten and make it nine. [Hippolytus AH 6:42]

Quote:

six is reckoned in the order of numbers, but the succession of the letters acknowledges the character which is not written. In this case, in the numbers themselves, each unit is preserved in its order up to seven and eight. But in the number of the characters, Zeta becomes six and Eta seven. And the character having somehow slipped into writing, should we follow it out thus, the seven became six, and the eight seven.[Stromata 6:16]

I know the latter two references don't make reference to οἶνος to ὄξος but can anyone help me find the origin of this 'letter change' idea? Runia thinks the material in Philo is mostly derived from Aristotle, but I'm not so sure.

stephan huller · 04-16-2013, 08:57 PM

Does anyone know where there is an online edition of the Loeb for Philo

stephan huller · 04-16-2013, 11:40 PM

Interestingly Philo's ideas only work with Phoenician letters. The Phoenician letter Zayin:

Greek letter Zeta:

Z

But Phoenician letter Het

So Philo is going from Zayin

[IMG]

[/IMG]

to Eta:

H

Odd

Clivedurdle · 04-17-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

The Phoenician adaptation of the alphabet was extremely successful, and variants were adapted around the Mediterranean from about the 9th century BC, notably giving rise to the Greek, Old Italic, Anatolian and Paleohispanic scripts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet

DCHindley · 04-17-2013, 02:21 PM

Hmmm ... your error was treating an Adobe Photoshop SVG file for Het as an image file.

Try this:

.

Or this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Interestingly Philo's ideas only work with Phoenician letters. The Phoenician letter Zayin:

Greek letter Zeta:

Z

But Phoenician letter Het

So Philo is going from Zayin

[IMG]

[/IMG]

to Eta:

H

Odd

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-17-2013, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Does anyone know where there is an online edition of the Loeb for Philo

There is not.

Jeffrey

stephan huller · 04-17-2013, 03:16 PM

From David Runia just now

Thanks for the inquiry. I cannot say much more at short notice that what is said in the note to the Loeb Classical Library (which, by the way, you should be using rather than the hopelessly outdated Yonge), namely that the listing combines features of Peripatetic and atomistic doctrine, with an obvious inspiration from Arist. Met. A 4 985b18ff. wishing you all the best in your research

David

04-16-2013, 11:40 PM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Interestingly Philo's ideas only work with Phoenician letters. The Phoenician letter Zayin: Greek letter Zeta: Z But Phoenician letter Het So Philo is going from Zayin [IMG][/IMG] to Eta: H Odd

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04-16-2013, 08:57 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Does anyone know where there is an online edition of the Loeb for Philo

04-17-2013, 03:16 PM	#7
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	From David Runia just now Thanks for the inquiry. I cannot say much more at short notice that what is said in the note to the Loeb Classical Library (which, by the way, you should be using rather than the hopelessly outdated Yonge), namely that the listing combines features of Peripatetic and atomistic doctrine, with an obvious inspiration from Arist. Met. A 4 985b18ff. wishing you all the best in your research David

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