Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Adriann · 07-27-2005, 10:57 AM

Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. (Matthew 11)

Can someone explain ? :banghead:

ecco · 07-27-2005, 11:33 AM

Jesus was upset that the tree didn't have any figs.
Jesus, in a fit of anger, peed on the fig tree and killed it.
Jesus' prophecy about no one eating from the fig tree again came true.

Toto · 07-27-2005, 12:43 PM

This is a symbolic story, and would have been read as a symbolic story by a 1st-2nd century audience. The fig tree is a well known symbol of Israel. The story says that the Jews were not "fruitful" so they are condemned.

Here is a Christian take on the story:

Quote:

While there were occasional periods of spiritual revival among the Hebrews (as in the days of Josiah, a good king - see 2 Kgs. 22-23), the tragic fact is, the nation was on a gradual, degenerative slide – a path of apostasy that would culminate with the blood-thirsty cry, “Crucify him! Crucify him!�? (Lk. 23:21). The Jewish people, through the influence they exerted upon the Roman authorities (see Mt. 20:19; Acts 2:23), had Jesus killed. They murdered the very Messiah for whom they had waited across the centuries (see Mt. 21:33ff). Though they had enjoyed every conceivable spiritual advantage, they had become, for the most part, an utterly renegade nation.

In the symbolism of the Scriptures, a fruitless, withered tree was worthy of nothing more than being cut down (cf. Psa. 90:6; Hos. 9:16). "Withering" was a symbol of imminent death (Joel 1:12). In the blasting of this fruitless fig tree, the Son of God was suggesting this:

The nation, as a political entity, had become a worthless mechanism in the sacred scheme of things. It thus was worthy of nothing but destruction.
That destruction would shortly come (within forty years – A.D. 66-70) with the invasion of the land by the Roman armies (cf. Mt. 22:7ff; 24:15ff).
The punishment would be complete and final; the "tree" would be dead from the very "roots" (Mk. 11:20).*

Here are some gentler possibilities.

Adriann · 07-27-2005, 01:02 PM

Well, I think none of these explanations work, because the reason of being "fruitless" is given and it's not a blamable one, especially worthy for "wither" : "it was not the season for figs".

Toto · 07-27-2005, 01:10 PM

You're saying that the writer of the gospel got the symbolism a bit mixed up, from your point of view. That may be true. But perhaps the gospel writer merely wanted to show that the Jews had failed and would be destroyed, and it was just a historical trend, not necessarily due to their excessive sins.

I say in any case that you can't read this literally. It's like pointing out that Goldilocks would never have mistook a wolf for her grandmother, so what's the point of that story?

Dharma · 07-27-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

You're saying that the writer of the gospel got the symbolism a bit mixed up, from your point of view. That may be true. But perhaps the gospel writer merely wanted to show that the Jews had failed and would be destroyed, and it was just a historical trend, not necessarily due to their excessive sins.

I say in any case that you can't read this literally. It's like pointing out that Goldilocks would never have mistook a wolf for her grandmother, so what's the point of that story?

yes, but the story of Goldilocks isn't expounded as the "Singular and highest revelation of the One True God".

Adriann · 07-27-2005, 01:23 PM

Toto, perhaps. But in order for their statements to make sense, there has to be a complete interpretation of the whole happening. But, they skip that part and I don't see why although, it's pretty obvious.

John Kesler · 07-27-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Adriann:
Well, I think none of these explanations work, because the reason of being "fruitless" is given and it's not a blamable one, especially worthy for "wither" : "it was not the season for figs".

You are referring to Mark's version. Matthew may have been bothered by this fact, too. Note that Matthew gives no such disclaimer.

Quote:

Mark 11:13 (NRSV)
13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see whether perhaps he would find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs.

Matthew 11:19a (NRSV)
19 And seeing a fig tree by the side of the road, he went to it and found nothing at all on it but leaves.

Also, in Mark the disciples don't notice the withered fig tree until the next day (vv 20,22), while in Matthew the disciples see the tree wither "at once" (vv 19-20). One final thing is that although Luke does not record a withering fig tree pericope, Luke's Jesus tells a parable about an unproductive fig tree (13:6-9) which is absent in Matthew and Mark.

Nero's Boot · 07-27-2005, 02:41 PM

I just interpreted it as God throwing a temper tantrum as a human, as he did when he was purely divine.

--he threw shitfits an awful lot in the Old Testament; then he went and invented eternal torture NB

Thomas II · 07-27-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriann

Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. (Matthew 11)

Can someone explain ? :banghead:

Personally I like that last alternative related to Zec.8:12 shown in this site...
http://kevin.davnet.org/articles/fig.html

07-27-2005, 10:57 AM	#1
Adriann Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Eastern Europe Posts: 52	Why is that ? Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. (Matthew 11) Can someone explain ? :banghead:

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07-27-2005, 11:33 AM	#2
ecco Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: SE Posts: 4,845	Jesus was upset that the tree didn't have any figs. Jesus, in a fit of anger, peed on the fig tree and killed it. Jesus' prophecy about no one eating from the fig tree again came true.

07-27-2005, 01:02 PM	#4
Adriann Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Eastern Europe Posts: 52	Well, I think none of these explanations work, because the reason of being "fruitless" is given and it's not a blamable one, especially worthy for "wither" : "it was not the season for figs".

07-27-2005, 01:10 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	You're saying that the writer of the gospel got the symbolism a bit mixed up, from your point of view. That may be true. But perhaps the gospel writer merely wanted to show that the Jews had failed and would be destroyed, and it was just a historical trend, not necessarily due to their excessive sins. I say in any case that you can't read this literally. It's like pointing out that Goldilocks would never have mistook a wolf for her grandmother, so what's the point of that story?

07-27-2005, 01:23 PM	#7
Adriann Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Eastern Europe Posts: 52	Toto, perhaps. But in order for their statements to make sense, there has to be a complete interpretation of the whole happening. But, they skip that part and I don't see why although, it's pretty obvious.

07-27-2005, 02:41 PM	#9
Nero's Boot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: West Virginia Posts: 1,234	I just interpreted it as God throwing a temper tantrum as a human, as he did when he was purely divine. --he threw shitfits an awful lot in the Old Testament; then he went and invented eternal torture NB

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