Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ChandraRama · 03-24-2006, 03:21 PM

A friend has created this page and asked my opinion.
I share that with you.

http://geocities.com/samram1964/index.html

Regards

Chris Weimer · 03-24-2006, 04:01 PM

"Site Unavailable"

jjramsey · 03-24-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

"Site Unavailable"

It's available now.

Toto · 03-24-2006, 05:00 PM

In case it disappears again, the webpage works off Michael Turton's analysis of Mark into a chiastic structure, although it is not clear what chiasms add to the analysis. The thesis is

Quote:

Why Mark was written?

Mark was written as a propaganda document explaining the Zealot movement and asking for support from the Greek speaking Jews in the Roman Empire. It is not written as a religious scripture. (If that was the intent, my guess is that it should have been written in Hebrew). This document is specifically targeted towards the Jews and not Gentiles.

Why was Mark written this way?

The writer of Mark has a definite goal to make the parable as difficult to be understood by the Romans and Gentiles but understood by the Jewish scholars. Also this document tries to hide the meaning even from the Jewish scholars except the ones who knew what stood for what. Only the initiated would know the meaning of this parable. This is for a specific reason that the Mark if it is a open document would invite big trouble for the Jews living in Roman empire. As it is spread and read all over the Roman empire asking for monetary and political support for the zealot movement, it wants to avoid unnecessary identification by the Roman authorities and the Pharisees who would identify and kill the movement.

For example, the web page interprets this:

Quote:

1: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2: As it is written in Isaiah the prophet, "Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way; 3: the voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight -- " 4: John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5: And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. 6: Now John was clothed with camel's hair, and had a leather girdle around his waist, and ate locusts and wild honey. 7: And he preached, saying, "After me comes he who is mightier than I, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8: I have baptized you with water; but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

in this way:

Quote:

a) "Gospel" is written in Greek as euangelion euaggelion appears only in 2 Samuel (LXX 2 Kings) 4:10, where David kills the messenger who brings the 'good news' of Saul's death. The implicit reading is whoever celebrates the destruction of Zealots as 'good news' needs to be destroyed.

b) Isaiah did not write the wording. It is Malachi. Do not the Jews who read this in the first sentence know this? It is obvious to a fault. It is Malachi 3.1. So read together it will be Isaiah 3.1. ( 1: For, behold, the Lord, the LORD of hosts, is taking away from Jerusalem and from Judah stay and staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water; ) Read from the earlier Isaiah we know that It is caused by the sins of Jews. Zealot movement came as a gift of God to the jews because of the sins of the jews.

c) Zealot movement is directly inspired and initiated by John the Baptist.

Charles Wilson · 03-24-2006, 05:47 PM

Although MT views my readings of Mark as idiosyncratic, I feel he is wrong on the following point. "Jesus" - a construct - was at least in a different camp from the Zealots. The parable of the coin argues that there may have been antagonisms between the two camps. Go to the Jewish Encyclopedia and search "Zealots" "Essenes". Many would not look at the face on a coin or a statue over a city. Jesus states about the coin, "Let me see it." Jesus was not a Zealot. He was a Priest. He sees another way around the Roman/Herodian problem.
CW

ChandraRama · 03-25-2006, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Wilson

Although MT views my readings of Mark as idiosyncratic, I feel he is wrong on the following point. "Jesus" - a construct - was at least in a different camp from the Zealots. The parable of the coin argues that there may have been antagonisms between the two camps. Go to the Jewish Encyclopedia and search "Zealots" "Essenes". Many would not look at the face on a coin or a statue over a city. Jesus states about the coin, "Let me see it." Jesus was not a Zealot. He was a Priest. He sees another way around the Roman/Herodian problem.
CW

The following is from the page.

Zealot movement argues to the Jewish people. “See the likeness and inscription of Caesar in the coins. Give them back to the Caesar.”( In our God’s kingdom we will have our own coins where the likeness of human figures would not appear). It is true that a subsect of the zealots (sicarii or essenes) would not even look at the coins. Zealots is a broader movement that encompassed the sicarii. And sicarii is portrayed in this parable as the betrayers of the Zealot movement.

ChandraRama · 03-25-2006, 06:04 AM

There is also an interesting explanation for the bread miracles.

03-24-2006, 03:21 PM	#1
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	Jesus as a metaphor for the zealot movement A friend has created this page and asked my opinion. I share that with you. http://geocities.com/samram1964/index.html Regards

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03-24-2006, 04:01 PM	#2
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	"Site Unavailable"

03-24-2006, 05:47 PM	#5
Charles Wilson Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Saint Petersburg, Fl Posts: 51	Although MT views my readings of Mark as idiosyncratic, I feel he is wrong on the following point. "Jesus" - a construct - was at least in a different camp from the Zealots. The parable of the coin argues that there may have been antagonisms between the two camps. Go to the Jewish Encyclopedia and search "Zealots" "Essenes". Many would not look at the face on a coin or a statue over a city. Jesus states about the coin, "Let me see it." Jesus was not a Zealot. He was a Priest. He sees another way around the Roman/Herodian problem. CW

03-25-2006, 06:04 AM	#7
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	There is also an interesting explanation for the bread miracles.

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