ckandes1

I have to question all of Christianity, not just one simple story. Ok here are some Christian beliefs:

"God made every single person unique. He gave them their own personality, identity, appearance, and way of thinking"

"God already knows what will happen in your life, he knows every decision you will or have ever make, he knows everything"

Ok, lets put this together. And stick with me here. Remember, christians believe god made everything. If you go deep into that, it would include the form of thought, the reason to think, reason itself. When you start on a universe from scratch, you gotta make the whole system of the mind and everything, you gotta make the fact that there IS a system. If you want to make every mind unique, yet you know everything that will happen in everyone's life, and you made every little detail of everything, then technically, you programmed each and every mind. Well, that would mean every decision we make will be pre-programed. Its a mix and match set up, whichever our mind thinks will work best, it will do. And since god created the way we think.. well it gets pretty complicated. But technically this would all mean we don't have 'Choice'. everything is in a way preplanned. There is no way i can write every aspect of this, its just too much. But if you think about it for yourself, MAYBE you'll realize what i mean. This is just scratching the surface of this topic. I believe if the right words are found to explain what is running through my mind, christianity could be proven wrong.

I am against christianity, but i have been forced to learn about christianity since before i remember, and i still have to go to church every sunday, and i used to go to bible study too.

Toto

I think this topic will do better in General Religious Discussions - I don't see any Biblical Criticism here, and I don't think the idea that god made us all unique is especially Biblical.

ckandes1

anyone have any comments on this at all?

breathilizer

Just get ready to here to same lame "We have free will" lines we've all heard before.

schu

If God is all-powerful and all-knowing there is no chance his creations can have free will. He might allow them to pretend that they have free will just as he might have put fossils in the ground so people can pretend that this is an old earth. But he would know exactly what every one of his creation was going to do in the future. That being the case, the created have to do exactly what the creator already knew they would do. This does not allow for free will any more than fossils allow for a young earth. Both ideas argue against there being a creator as portrayed in the Christian Bible.

Madkins007

[QUOTE]If you want to make every mind unique, yet you know everything that will happen in everyone's life, and you made every little detail of everything, then technically, you programmed each and every mind. Well, that would mean every decision we make will be pre-programed. [/QUOTE}

In what way does making each unique mean pre-programmed, and how does pre-programmed mean no free will?

For example, if I programmed a computer to calculate primes, I certainly do not know what the results will be.

If I program a robot to move around in an environment and program it to make a combination of specific and random choises as it interacts, I can make an interesting probability chart of the results, but I cannot KNOW where it will end up.

The situation becomes even more interesting if I can program it to learn from each interaction and to generate new decisions based on them.



I often wonder... if we were sort of like the above robots, and God could see some sort of overlay map of each decision, and the results of each decision, and each new decision that each choice brings out BUT He does not know exactly which path we would take in advance- does that fulfill His all-knowingness, while giving us some meaure of a free will?

azmodan

[QUOTE=Madkins007]no, it couldnt fulfill his all-knowingness because in order to be ALL knowing there couldnt be anything he doesnt know. otherwise what he knows would not be all.

Madkins007

Just as there are different degrees of infinity*, can there not also be different degrees of 'all knowingness'?

(Example- there are an infinite number of points in a true mathematical line. However, there are an infinite number of lines in a plane- infinity squared. There are an infinite number of planes in space, thus infinity cubed. All are infinite, yet the latter two are obviously bigger than 'mere' infinity.)

Knowing every option path, the likelihood of each, the consequences of each, and then the same thihgs for each node for each person seems pretty all-knowing in and of itself.

What if he CHOOSES to know know each particular path in advance, yet had the capability? How would this impact 'all-knowingness'?

Rational BAC

I think the problem lies with our human fantasy that a Supreme Being has to be all knowing and all powerful and perfect in every way.

Goody two shoes and all that shit.

Not true at all. All a Supreme Being has to be is smarter and more powerful and more knowing than the rest of us. --than the rest of all entities in the universe. Forget perfection and sinlessness----those concepts exist only in the fantasy part of our silly little minds.

Let us consider a Supreme Being for what He really is or is most likely to be-----not what in our fanciful imaginations we would like Him to be.

And I think that is a very Christian concept.