IamJoseph

One can believe whatever inspires them - that is their right. But if they also make charges on another - such as murder and villification - they cannot posit 'belief' as its proof. This is the law. If they cannot prove the charges - the penalty becomes reversed. The Hebrew wins here. You cannot prove some Jews killed your Lord - I can prove the accusers of this blatant lie did mass murdered numerously, covered it up, and never mentioned it in their sacred writings. It becomes a lie-by-omission, which is a most grave crime - it signifies a pre-med action.

steve_bnk

A\hheemm....the early 'Christians' were Jews...JC when speaking about 'the world' and the 'end of the world' was righly predicting tne fall of the Jewish state.

He is referenced as rabai and was a Jew preaching to Jews to return to the old spritual ways, which of course the wealthy elite did not want to hear They wanted a return to militay and political power..


Rome called them Jewish Heretics for a century or two until the Christians distanced themselves from the Jews, and therby loosing the general acceptance Rome gave the Jews.

IamJoseph

There was no early christians - this term never emerged till 174 CE. The nazerites and ebonites were Jews, among numerous groups following different teachers. They expelled Paul and had no belief which is alligned with christianity.

You are quoting the Gospels to prove the Gospels: belief is not history. Here too, the Roman writings failed - the Jews were not heretics by any stretch of the examination, and put up the greatest defense for their belief against Rome's decrees of heresy - compared of any other peoples in history. Over a million Jews sacrificed themselves and their nation to uphold their beliefs, which you are describing as heresy! The Jews likewise resisted the church's heresy in Europe, then of Islam - one can say christians rejected Islam also - were you disbelievers and heretics?

The charges of Christianity and Islam against others should be re-considered, specially a peoples with a belief predating by 2000 years and incurring numerous existential wars to prove their beliefs. The Jews should be respected and hailed for defending the right to freedom of belief - which is abjectly wanting in the Gospels.

hinduwoman

'Is it true?' ---

If I look on the stranger as one of my family then the laws that bind me and my tribe also apply to him.

What has my property got to do with anything? :huh:

hinduwoman

Only when they were being persecuted of course.
In power it was kill any jew who went a whoring after other gods. No freedom of belief then.

bacht

It's clear that the NT wants us to believe that the first Christians were Jews, but I'm not so sure anymore. Paul, one of the first preacher/missionaries, seems wholly focused on gentiles. The presentation of Jesus as a divine hero seems more pagan than Jewish. It's not impossible that early Roman catholics fabricated church legends to prove a connection with the Jews (probably because they appropriated their scriptures).

steve_bnk

I belive it is axepted thtas the lierate peoile would liuley knbow Greek philospohy that Greek influnce krept inbto eraly Chrtian mythology.

On another past thread the commonalites between Chisrtian mythology and all mythologies in general are similar. The tragic hero-saviour who gets taken up into heaven or Valhala and in doing so saves the world.

IC was not banging on the door of Pilate's house handing pout pamphlets, he was soley talking to the Jews as a Jew.

I think Paul as written was reacting and asjusting to situations as they developed, such as gentile converts. He was 'interpreting' what he knew of JC. Not unlike the RCC Pope declaring that birth control is a sin.

show_no_mercy

This is pretty interesting and I agree with it. Christians do not follow Jewish law - the 613 commandments that makes someone a Jew. The only reason why Christians keep around the "Old Testament" is because they feel that it predicted the arrival of Jesus. Though all throughout the OT Jews are punished for being idolatrous, Christians felt that idolatry (YHWH assuming human form) was predicted among all of this punishment for Jews being idolatrous!

semiopen

Congratulation on your brief return to approximate rationality; your totally irrelevant response about David had me worried. I've never seen anything like that before.

However, even here you are talking around the subject, which is not the truth and honesty of the actual writing but the three points I previously mentioned:

The Pentateuch was not written by Moses,
It was redacted many times after it was written,
and there was not an unbroken oral tradition.

My point was not even that these points are true, but only that their overwhelming acceptance by scholars today suggests that a man of Maimonides intellect and belief in rational truth, would probably have a completely different world view now than he did in the 12th century.

Feel free to disagree, but try to stay focussed.

steve_bnk

The evangelists get a visible thrill speaking bombasticaly thumping old English OT tanslations with thees and thous.

The new succes theology preached in the new wealthy mega-churhes is grounded in selected pickings of the Old Testament.