FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-12-2008, 10:47 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: oz
Posts: 1,848
Default And Peter broke down and wept

1.The gospel according to "Mark", 14.72 [RSV]

"And immediately the cock crowed a second time. And Peter remembered how Jesus had said to him, "Before the cock crows twice, you will deny me three times." And he broke down and wept."

2.The gospel according to "Matthew" 26.75

"And Peter remembered the saying of Jesus, "Before the cock crows, you will deny me three times." And he went out and wept bitterly."

3.The gospel according to "Luke" 22.62

"And Peter went out, and wept bitterly."

I am offering this as evidence as one more of many instances where, presuming "Markan" priority, either "Matthew" or "Luke" has copied the other and that the hypothesis of Q is unnecessary.
The "Peter wept" scenario is part of "Mark" and, IIUC, not considered to be part of Q. So the similarity of the bolded bits is, IMO, due to one of "Matthew" or "Luke" copying the other and not both relying on an unknown hypothetical document Q.
Both use "went out" and "bitterly".
cheers
yalla
yalla is offline  
Old 04-13-2008, 11:24 AM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Chili-Gibson digression split off here
Toto is offline  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:15 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

Luke 22:62 is missing in a few ancient manuscripts mostly Latin.

Possibly it was added to original Luke based on the text in Matthew.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 04-15-2008, 01:30 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ירושלים
Posts: 1,701
Default

April DeConick recently spoke on this topic. Essentially, when working with Matthew/Luke, the possibility of influence from copyists (proven elsewhere) has to always be considered. Other considerations include Deutero-Mark/Ur-Mark nor can we exclude Mark/Q overlaps (and the probability that our knowledge of Q's content is deficient).

As DeConick said, essentially we have a 3rd century text with some portions going back to the 2nd century. This is why textual criticism is an on-going investigation, and why Q hypothesis still exists - in my opinion, overall Q works better as a theory, even if it doesn't for every example, but neither does Matthew using Luke, or Luke using Matthew.
Solitary Man is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:15 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.